looking for natural gas boiler

[keakar]

I am on a tight budget and so i need to do this for under $100. right now I have a cheapo very "basic" propane burner and an 80 quart boiling pot.

I would like to avoid buying propane tanks for boiling seafood. I figure even if its not cheaper then propane, a natural gas seafood boiler is going to be a lot less trouble then messing with those tanks.

the trouble is I don't know anything about natural gas burners so most of what I have seen are just the natural gas burner jet rings that I assume you unscrew and swap out the propane burner or maybe you are supposed to build your own burner or something.

do you buy and screw one of these burner jet rings onto one of those cheap propane burners or just buy a complete natural gas boiler setup and where do you get them at a good price?

also, do cooking times go way up with nat gas or are they able to put out just as much heat as propane

[lil bubba]

All you need to boil with nat. gas is a 1/2 or 3/4 pipe with a cap and drill a 1/8 in. hole in the cap.....Nat. gas works with propane cooking burner too but I have found not as hot...Ace in laplace sells a burner replacement that has a bunch of brass nozzles or whatever they called....I don't know how it would work on standard home gas line but I know a guy uses it for his store to cook n boil and it is hotter than hell....Seems to be hotter than standard propane....

[keakar]

Originally Posted by lil bubba

All you need to boil with nat. gas is a 1/2 or 3/4 pipe with a cap and drill a 1/8 in. hole in the cap.....Nat. gas works with propane cooking burner too but I have found not as hot...Ace in laplace sells a burner replacement that has a bunch of brass nozzles or whatever they called....I don't know how it would work on standard home gas line but I know a guy uses it for his store to cook n boil and it is hotter than hell....Seems to be hotter than standard propane....

hmmm, well I was told you need all those nozzles to add heat or cooking times take forever.

I just cant see how you "fix" or attach the burner securely in place? I don't weld or know a welder.

I do see the burner rings with all the nozzles at the hardware stores and that's what got me wanting to do this but I want it safe, I don't want it to be a hack job.

[lil bubba]

If you want to only boil all you need is a pipe with cap and a hole drilled in cap.....Elbow the pipe out and go to home depot and get the size clear plastic line they sell and a hose clamp to clamp it to pipe and to existing gas line...Of course you need a gas valve at the end of your existing gas line to adjust pressure....If you want to cook you better off with a burner but if you put a flat plate under the pot on a pipe burner it works ok....You can swap out the burner with all the nozzles but I don't think a home line has enough volume....Maybe with propane....I personally used this at this store and it is hotter than propane but he also has a 1-1/2 to 2 inch gas line coming in , I don't remember....Nat. gas is cheaper than propane....We run 2 nat. gas burners inside and 2 propane outside for fishfrys and the propane use a tank each after 2 fry's while the nat. gas uses 15-20 dollars for 7 fry's.....

[keakar]

yep, its only for boiling crabs with, roughly 1/2 to a full bushel at a time.

I was just told by people (free advice is worth what you paid for it lol) but they said no way is one jet going to put out enough heat and it takes forever to cook because nat gas has no pressure behind in like propane does so "they" said I needed one of those rings with all the jets so it puts out enough heat to do the job. but there must be enough pressure for it coming into the house because the water heater and central heaters are putting out 150,000 BTUs on the house gas supply. I know stoves and gas valves on things regulate the pressure they let pass so I wasn't expecting to hear I might have a pressure supply issue with it.

this will need to be be running off of a 1/2 gas line from the back of the house. would drilling out the hole on my propane burner get me enough heat from that so my boiling and cooking times will be equal to propane or close to it? if so what size bit should I use?

[lil bubba]

Nat. gas is not hot as propane on a standard home gas line....Adding more openings only reduce flow pressure unless you have capacity...I used the one hole pipe cap on a 1 1/2 inch gas line and it worked just as good as propane....When the gas company swapped meters and went with standard gas line it worked ok for me but it will not equal the pressure of propane....I tried a cooking burner on nat. gas to boil and it sucked....It was actually a burner from a water heater....Cooked great....Took forever to boil....If you already have a pipe cap on your propane just get a cap and drill a bigger hole and you still have the one for propane if you not happy with it....Just reduce or upsize the pipe for the hose...

[keakar]

Originally Posted by lil bubba

Nat. gas is not hot as propane on a standard home gas line....Adding more openings only reduce flow pressure unless you have capacity...I used the one hole pipe cap on a 1 1/2 inch gas line and it worked just as good as propane....When the gas company swapped meters and went with standard gas line it worked ok for me but it will not equal the pressure of propane....I tried a cooking burner on nat. gas to boil and it sucked....It was actually a burner from a water heater....Cooked great....Took forever to boil....If you already have a pipe cap on your propane just get a cap and drill a bigger hole and you still have the one for propane if you not happy with it....Just reduce or upsize the pipe for the hose...

ok, I have the "jet burner" I assume since its the one with the one cap and one hole under a short pipe to direct/contain the flame.

so you say I just need to drill a new cap for nat gas use? that sounds easy enough to do but how do I figure out the drill bit size I need?

I can see where this step is easy to get wrong so is there a website place that tells me what size is best or at least a starting point?

[lil bubba]

Originally Posted by keakar

ok, I have the "jet burner" I assume since its the one with the one cap and one hole under a short pipe to direct/contain the flame.

so you say I just need to drill a new cap for nat gas use? that sounds easy enough to do but how do I figure out the drill bit size I need?

I can see where this step is easy to get wrong so is there a website place that tells me what size is best or at least a starting point?

Mine was 1/8....It just cost the price of a hose and 2 clamps and a couple fittings and new cap to see and if you think it can go bigger just drill 1/16 in. bigger but I think 1/8 should do....That guy in raceland may be where that store owner bought his and it is the fire of hell but like I said he is running a 1 1/2 to 2 inch line so it has a lot more volume...Can't say what it will do on a residentual line.....

[lil bubba]

This is what I'm speaking of and it claims residential gas is sufficiant ....Ace in laplace has them....

[biggun]

There is a guy here in LA.. That is at all the outdoor show's. He builds and sells an AWESOME N.G. SS boiling burner...

He is and was at the Sportsman show every yr.. But I can't remember his company or brand name.. I'd just google it..

His burners are the Stizzz. I google it for U.. IT's G4 burners. They be $300+. SS will last a life time. Look it up...


Gunner

[keakar]

Originally Posted by biggun

There is a guy here in LA.. That is at all the outdoor show's. He builds and sells an AWESOME N.G. SS boiling burner...

He is and was at the Sportsman show every yr.. But I can't remember his company or brand name.. I'd just google it..

His burners are the Stizzz. I google it for U.. IT's G4 burners. They be $300+. SS will last a life time. Look it up...


Gunner

yes, I think you are talking about g4 burners in Raceland and there are a couple others around in regular steel all right at $300 price but that's out of my price range even though they look nice. I would be looking for something complete that was in the $150 or less area which might be a little unrealistic for a custom made burner.

[keakar]

I don't know what is going on but this website keeps replacing my links (6 times already after the link was posted and tested to be working and correct, I come back to find it is changed or not working) but here is the correct link for the burners I had in mind: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jet-Burner-2...item338e9d4f70

I was also thinking about this one as a better option I can see might be easier to attach the other burners too since it has a flat plate under it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sportsman-Se...3D161628726760

[Andy C]

Didn't look at them, if you can change just the orifices, ( cheep if they change able) ng is not as hot as propane hints the need for bigger orifices for the same heat-cook times. Tieing into (community ng) be careful! How you do it. Most gas co. Don't like that, and will pull your mater or lock your gas off!!

[keakar]

Originally Posted by Andy C

Didn't look at them, if you can change just the orifices, ( cheep if they change able) ng is not as hot as propane hints the need for bigger orifices for the same heat-cook times. Tieing into (community ng) be careful! How you do it. Most gas co. Don't like that, and will pull your mater or lock your gas off!!

no com gas taps here, its residential connection at the house after the meter tapped from a gas line in the house.

this link shows exactly what I have now (just stumbled across it): http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Port-Outd...item5b0d0bbb75

which is a 3/8" steel pipe with a 90 screwed onto the end to direct gas upward with a brass acorn cap screwed on top of it with a hole drilled in it to be the one jet it has.

im thinking it wouldn't do much to just drill out that one hole when im trying to boil an 80 qt pot of water with it, or am I wrong?

[Andy C]

Got you, probably not changeable orifices. But maybe, what I was saying is if the gas company comes by for any reason and the "tie in" was not done by a "license plumber" it could be more trouble then it saves. Not saying never done it just telling you from experience.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by Andy C

Got you, probably not changeable orifices. But maybe, what I was saying is if the gas company comes by for any reason and the "tie in" was not done by a "license plumber" it could be more trouble then it saves. Not saying never done it just telling you from experience.

gotcha, yep I do things the right way according to building codes only.

the one jet I have can be drilled out but im not sure if doing it would give me the results im after with just one flame point under lower pressure but then I just don't know since I never tried this before.

maybe before buying the other stuff to put something together, I think i'll get another 3/8" brass acorn cap and drill it out to test how it boils the pot but the pipe on it is only 3/8" to start with and lil bubba was saying I should keep it to 1/2" so that's a question mark already.

[Juciy]

Natural gas has more BTUs than Propane. However, you will need more pressure and volume coming from the supply line. The best thing to do for a permeant solution is to run a separate supply line from the meter with another regulator. This will slow you to increase the pressure and volume supplied to the burner. I would run a 2" supply line also as someone stated above.


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[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Juciy

Natural gas has more BTUs than Propane. However, you will need more pressure and volume coming from the supply line. The best thing to do for a permeant solution is to run a separate supply line from the meter with another regulator. This will slow you to increase the pressure and volume supplied to the burner. I would run a 2" supply line also as someone stated above.


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Propane has about 4 times more BTU's than natural gas. And if I remember correctly, it requires about 5 times more air to get a really good flame.

This is why there not a "simple" conversion to switch from propane to Natural gas.

So if you drill out the hole to get more gas, this also requires 4 or 5 times more air to get the best flame.

[keakar]

I appreciate all the helpful suggestions but I have no budget to create a new gas feed just for randomly boiling crabs once or twice a month. I think everyone can understand that is a little too much expense and trouble for "at the most" 3 or 4 boils a month.

so there will be no new gas line or anything other then plug and play solution that will fit my needs in connecting to the 1/2" gas line that ends at the back of the house. this is a 50ft 3/4" line coming from the street to the house, and then another 35ft 1/2" gas line plus 3 or 4 90's along the way after leaving that shutoff valve going up into the house, across the attic feeding the water heater and stove, and then out the back of the house. so for the most part there is little to no use of the gas supply other then the water heater so it will be like having a designated 1/2" gas line just for the burner.

keep in mind, nothing requiring involving the gas company, new lines run, or anything like that with the exception of possibly having the gas company come out and adjust my regulator to supply a little more gas pressure to the house using the same line if need be is what I am looking for, a basic plug and play solution.

the one thing that keeps rattling around in my little brain is these $300 cookers say to just hook it straight to your house gas line and don't say anything about needing dedicated lines, more pressure, or larger gas line sizes. maybe its just something you find out about later but im confused why there aren't many people claiming they don't work since we all know most people buying them will hook them up just as I am thinking of doing. I think what you guys are saying might be true but then the people selling them are not saying any of this is needed so im back and forth on this not knowing for sure.

[saute86]

Our wok burners were refractory lined. They do sell set ups made of metal for that style burner. It sounds like you need to get quotes and weigh it against how many bottle refills you can get for it. I have learned the hard way that trying to do it cheap costs more in the long run.