Weirs Closed

[biglaketiger]

I say it is because of in the field experience, my family has roots on the island here. I spent summers out here as a kid. All I know is when the weirs are open and the water is flowing in and out the fishing is great, when it's locked up tight the fishing declines dramatically. That's all I know...

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by biglaketiger

I say it is because of in the field experience, my family has roots on the island here. I spent summers out here as a kid. All I know is when the weirs are open and the water is flowing in and out the fishing is great, when it's locked up tight the fishing declines dramatically. That's all I know...

That is probably because all of the bait species being funneled through certain locations. If the weirs and levee had never been put there, the fishing probably wouldn't be that good because you wouldn't have mass movements of multiple species at one time.

Hewes, As far as the boat bay, I don't know about that. Is it just at a certain time of year that it is closed, or are you talking about at different times it will be closed and other times open. I know they close it for a period when duck season opens.

[biglaketiger]

Originally Posted by Smalls

That is probably because all of the bait species being funneled through certain locations. If the weirs and levee had never been put there, the fishing probably wouldn't be that good because you wouldn't have mass movements of multiple species at one time.

Hewes, As far as the boat bay, I don't know about that. Is it just at a certain time of year that it is closed, or are you talking about at different times it will be closed and other times open. I know they close it for a period when duck season opens.

I know that's the reason the fishing is good or bad depending on the weirs, bait equals fish, simple...No one here doesn't know that. That's what we are all complaining about

[hewes]

no sir I have seen it at different time of the year boat bay closed and gates open. it was done in the spring, summer and fall. I would call to complain and nothing would change. why doesn't the refuge build a walkway and dock for people to crab and fish on the inside? why does the refuge have to be closed when boat bay is closed?

[Natural Light Kid]

Originally Posted by biglaketiger

I say it is because of in the field experience, my family has roots on the island here. I spent summers out here as a kid. All I know is when the weirs are open and the water is flowing in and out the fishing is great, when it's locked up tight the fishing declines dramatically. That's all I know...

Would completely removing the weirs solve the fishing/crabbing problem?

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Natural Light Kid

Would completely removing the weirs solve the fishing/crabbing problem?

That along with a few other changes. Look at Sabine lake, it's black and white. Put all scientific data aside and just use common sense, weirs closed=bad fishing. It doesn't take an expert to figure this out. Boy i love how scientists like to discredit observations made by people who fish the lake at least 100 times a year for last 10,20,30 years.

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

That along with a few other changes. Look at Sabine lake, it's black and white. Put all scientific data aside and just use common sense, weirs closed=bad fishing. It doesn't take an expert to figure this out. Boy i love how scientists like to discredit observations made by people who fish the lake at least 100 times a year for last 10,20,30 years.

does Sabine have a ship channel like Big Lake? therein lies your answer

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

does Sabine have a ship channel like Big Lake? therein lies your answer

ummm yes

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

That along with a few other changes. Look at Sabine lake, it's black and white. Put all scientific data aside and just use common sense, weirs closed=bad fishing. It doesn't take an expert to figure this out. Boy i love how scientists like to discredit observations made by people who fish the lake at least 100 times a year for last 10,20,30 years.

Sabine lake is a different system. Major differences between the two.

For one, there are two freshwater inflows into the Sabine, the Neches and Sabine Rivers. Big Lake has one, that also happens to be disrupted by a saltwater barrier.

It has nothing to do with discrediting fishermen. Fishermen see fish, and crabs, and shrimp and say the marsh is fine. A wetland scientist looks at the plant community and sees rapid changes occurring. Changes that, if left unchecked, will result in massive expanses of open water where marsh once existed. It has happened, there is proof.

Sabine and Big Lake are different systems. You can't compare the two without considering the major differences. There is definitely more freshwater flowing into Sabine than there is into Big Lake.

BTW, back in 2002, plans were put in motion to install water control structures on the east bank of Sabine.

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Sabine lake is a different system. Major differences between the two.

For one, there are two freshwater inflows into the Sabine, the Neches and Sabine Rivers. Big Lake has one, that also happens to be disrupted by a saltwater barrier.

It has nothing to do with discrediting fishermen. Fishermen see fish, and crabs, and shrimp and say the marsh is fine. A wetland scientist looks at the plant community and sees rapid changes occurring. Changes that, if left unchecked, will result in massive expanses of open water where marsh once existed. It has happened, there is proof.

Sabine and Big Lake are different systems. You can't compare the two without considering the major differences. There is definitely more freshwater flowing into Sabine than there is into Big Lake.

BTW, back in 2002, plans were put in motion to install water control structures on the east bank of Sabine.

saltwater barriers on the neches and the sabine. Also the main determining factor for the freshwater flowing into Sabine is he dams on Rayburn and Toledo. When they ain't generating power at those dams, the water don't flow. And the gulf pours directly into sabine...straight shot. It doesn't sit off to the side of the channel like B.L. does, so if anything, I would say Sabine receives more of a direct saltwater influx from the gulf?

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by mr crab

saltwater barriers on the neches and the sabine. Also the main determining factor for the freshwater flowing into Sabine is he dams on Rayburn and Toledo. When they ain't generating power at those dams, the water don't flow. And the gulf pours directly into sabine...straight shot. It doesn't sit off to the side of the channel like B.L. does, so if anything, I would say Sabine receives more of a direct saltwater influx from the gulf?

But freshwater inflows are still greater when they occur. You have a much larger drainage area for the Sabine and Neches rivers than the Calcasieu.

I admit, I did miss the Neches SWB though.

For whatever reason saltwater has had a greater effect to this point on Big Lake than on Sabine.

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by Smalls

But freshwater inflows are still greater when they occur. You have a much larger drainage area for the Sabine and Neches rivers than the Calcasieu.

I admit, I did miss the Neches SWB though.

For whatever reason saltwater has had a greater effect to this point on Big Lake than on Sabine.

It may be what some have said before.."not all marsh is created equal"..idk..maybe the vegetation, soil make-up, or elevation makes the Sabine marsh more salt tolerant? or maybe its dying off too, and nobody has noticed? Heck IDK

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

But freshwater inflows are still greater when they occur. You have a much larger drainage area for the Sabine and Neches rivers than the Calcasieu.

I admit, I did miss the Neches SWB though.

For whatever reason saltwater has had a greater effect to this point on Big Lake than on Sabine.

Sabine has a much smaller (narrower) coupling between the lake and channel at the southern end. Most of the salt water coming into the channel flows up and around and actually enters the lake at the northern end because the coupling at the N end is the full channel depth (40 ft) whereas the coupling at the S end is shallow (5 ft). There are many times when Sabine Lake is actually saltier at the N end than the S end.

Big Lake has a wide open coupling between the lake and channel at the S end that is about 15 times longer than the coupling between the channel and S end of Sabine. The salt water coupling from the Gulf to the lake is much stronger on Big Lake. The wide open gap between channel and lake at the S end of Big Lake is the place to stop the salt.

[Natural Light Kid]

Originally Posted by mr crab

saltwater barriers on the neches and the sabine. Also the main determining factor for the freshwater flowing into Sabine is he dams on Rayburn and Toledo. When they ain't generating power at those dams, the water don't flow. And the gulf pours directly into sabine...straight shot. It doesn't sit off to the side of the channel like B.L. does, so if anything, I would say Sabine receives more of a direct saltwater influx from the gulf?

It may see a more direct influx of saltwater but it probably sees more influx of freshwater too. I used to fish Sabine quite a bit before Rita and my father-n-law used to guide in it. My personal opinion (no scientific backing like the rest of my thoughts) is that Sabine gets "turned over" more often than Calcasieau does. There are times when it's fresh and times when it's salty. More like the way Mother nature intended.

[Natural Light Kid]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

That along with a few other changes. Look at Sabine lake, it's black and white. Put all scientific data aside and just use common sense, weirs closed=bad fishing. It doesn't take an expert to figure this out. Boy i love how scientists like to discredit observations made by people who fish the lake at least 100 times a year for last 10,20,30 years.

I'm afraid some aren't seeing the big picture. If u dynamite the weirs the fishing will be great like right after Rita. Problem is it won't last. The marsh will die and all the things that make it great when the weirs are open will no longer be there. When the weirs are open, and bait enters the lake, it's great for the fishing. If the marsh is dead, and their is no bait entering the lake when the weirs are open, then you will not have good fishing or hunting. I think we (me included) need to try to look at the big picture and come up with a solution to solve the problemS, not the problem like we've been doing. Things are cyclical. You cannot have great fishing 24/7/365. Im sure back in the day before the ship channels, there were good times and bad times, but man wasnt there to freak out if they didnt load the boat up one day with fish. The estuary is dependent on lots of things including certain levels of salinity, freshwater flushings, thriving surrounding marshes, etc. I wish there was a way that we could return things back to as original as possible.

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Natural Light Kid

I'm afraid some aren't seeing the big picture. If u dynamite the weirs the fishing will be great like right after Rita. Problem is it won't last. The marsh will die and all the things that make it great when the weirs are open will no longer be there. When the weirs are open, and bait enters the lake, it's great for the fishing. If the marsh is dead, and their is no bait entering the lake when the weirs are open, then you will not have good fishing or hunting. I think we (me included) need to try to look at the big picture and come up with a solution to solve the problemS, not the problem like we've been doing. Things are cyclical. You cannot have great fishing 24/7/365. Im sure back in the day before the ship channels, there were good times and bad times, but man wasnt there to freak out if they didnt load the boat up one day with fish. The estuary is dependent on lots of things including certain levels of salinity, freshwater flushings, thriving surrounding marshes, etc. I wish there was a way that we could return things back to as original as possible.

I get the whole picture, a lot needs to be done. We need oyster reefs back and to rock off the ship channel, i get that. I'm just saying that fishing sucks when the weirs are closed. Bottom line.