Concealed Weapon Permit

[Andy C]

We all Christine's just different ways of seeing church, & I am leaving it at that!!

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by Andy C

We all Christine's just different ways of seeing church, & I am leaving it at that!!

Good!!

[evidrine]

I understand the law completely. I all I stated was my feelings towards this type of thinking. I do my best to always follow the law. Its the attitude that you have towards anyone carrying a weapon other than you is unsafe. I'm sorry if I can't jump on your "I'm special band wagon". We should all have the right and that right should be respected. Your confusion in thinking that less people armed is safer than everyone having the right to protect themselves and others is troubling. Just a few posts back you were comparing yourself to a swat team. If that doesn't scream ego then I don't know what does. If there is a sign posted out front then I will not carry. I would expect no one else to carry either. I do not think that you or anyone else other than a licensed officer has more rights than I do. If your pastor gives you permission and not no one else he should be able to make that known. You have no right to tell anyone they cannot carry. Just my opinion that's all.

[duckman1911]

Not trying to throw gas on the fire but I get what Andy is saying. I don't attend a church but I have absolute respect for the house of God. Any person that goes into a house of God with intent to do harm has a special spot in hell resereved for them. It is however disturbing when some of our city churches own multiple city blocks and can afford to advertise at a five to one ratio over our local food bank. I know people that go to these churches and they are great people. I think it's just an atmosphere thing is what Andy was saying. Some like big churches with multiple buildings and some like small churches where everyone knows everyone and it's not just God's family you actually feel like family.

[duckman1911]

I also understand CC's point although I don't exactly agree with it. From a tactical standpoint it would be impossible to distinguish between church members and nonmembers in a bad situation. 1000 people trying to get out as fast as possible. Not knowing the lay out of the church having a security member at entrances and exits is good but if something bad happened and a team member was in trouble it may be near impossible to get to him/ her and help with a flood of scared people trying to escape. That is where armed church members could help. Could. There is no perfect plan. If there was you wouldn't be in a gunfight. I think there are times you need to stay low and try to be a good witness but if you are directly threatened you should be able to defend yourself and your family not be stuck waiting for security to wade through a 1000 people to come help you. Gun in hand or cop on the phone. What works faster? Again CC I'm not trying to disrespect you are your team just looking from both sides

[Dogface]

But don't forget that it's the law. Unless you complete 8 hours per year tactical training and have the ok from the pastor the law says you cannot CC in a house of worship even if you have a CC permit. I totally agree that it's not a perfect plan and hope none of us ever have to go through a really bad situation.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Dogface

But don't forget that it's the law. Unless you complete 8 hours per year tactical training and have the ok from the pastor the law says you cannot CC in a house of worship even if you have a CC permit. I totally agree that it's not a perfect plan and hope none of us ever have to go through a really bad situation.

You sir are correct. However oc is unregulated according to the state constitution. It is clear in the fact that only cc can be regulated. It can be overridden by property rights and I completely agree with that. You don't want me to carry that is your right but I also will never spend money with your business or church.
I do believe that 8hours a year training is laughable. Of course I think the cc requirements and a POST course is laughable also.

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

You sir are correct. However oc is unregulated according to the state constitution. It is clear in the fact that only cc can be regulated. It can be overridden by property rights and I completely agree with that. You don't want me to carry that is your right but I also will never spend money with your business or church.
I do believe that 8hours a year training is laughable. Of course I think the cc requirements and a POST course is laughable also.

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

[marty f]

Originally Posted by Dogface

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

Originally Posted by marty f

I can understand Cajuns point here. Id say 90%+ of CC holders are immensely under trained for the power they posses. In a church, theater or where ever trying to be a hero will get you killed. .

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Dogface

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

There are a few here that think I'm some 5'3" cocky guy strutting around with my 45 looking for a fight. I have strong stances I understand that. I have also been fortunate enough to train under some very great people. One was swat leader and head marksman for APD one was SRT team leader for Fort Polk and one was free lance edged weapons trainer for various departments. I agree with both sides of this issue. There is and never will be a perfect plan. Not be in a gun fight is the only perfect plan.

[kcinnick]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

There are a few here that think I'm some 5'3" cocky guy strutting around with my 45 looking for a fight. I have strong stances I understand that. I have also been fortunate enough to train under some very great people. One was swat leader and head marksman for APD one was SRT team leader for Fort Polk and one was free lance edged weapons trainer for various departments. I agree with both sides of this issue. There is and never will be a perfect plan. Not be in a gun fight is the only perfect plan.

If I was planning to be in a gunfight I would NOT rely on my concealed carry pistol.

I actually plan to never be in a gun fight, but if one is brought to me I do carry a pistol everywhere I go.

[kcinnick]

Property rights do trump CC laws, all you need is permission from the property owner/church leadership even without a permit. Same as you can carry in your own home however you wish, regardless of government issued documents. And I hate to say it, concealed means concealed. And one final comment, tactical training is not defined anywhere, so does 8 hours of range time a year count? I have a feeling this will never be a primary charge EVER.

[mriguy]

My buddy loves his DE'suploadfromtaptalk1439261558443.jpg
But he doesn't like to shoot them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by mriguy

My buddy loves his DE'sAttachment 92960
But he doesn't like to shoot them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

Manz how many rap cd's u buddy gotz?

[mriguy]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

Manz how many rap cd's u buddy gotz?

Lol! Not into rap but he is definitely into firearms.

[Shawn Braquet]

So now I need to pick out a new pistol and a new church since we have approximately 200-400 people at any given mass. This just got confusing. I apologize for anyone that is offended by my humor, well not really. I do like the idea of a well trained security team. After catching up on the last few pages, for those complaining about not being able to carry in a church, how about joining the team and protecting not only your at home family but your church family as well. 8 hours of yearly training, CC, and participate with the team and boom you are now carrying like you wanted. Maybe I'm missing something here though. Like Duckman said, don't like the law/rules of the church, don't go it's that easy.

[CajunChristian]

Originally Posted by Shawn Braquet

So now I need to pick out a new pistol and a new church since we have approximately 200-400 people at any given mass. This just got confusing. I apologize for anyone that is offended by my humor, well not really. I do like the idea of a well trained security team. After catching up on the last few pages, for those complaining about not being able to carry in a church, how about joining the team and protecting not only your at home family but your church family as well. 8 hours of yearly training, CC, and participate with the team and boom you are now carrying like you wanted. Maybe I'm missing something here though. Like Duckman said, don't like the law/rules of the church, don't go it's that easy.

You're right Shawn. Don't go or work from the inside changing the rules. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Don't like the rules, become part of the team, but, remember, our team trains much more than 8 hours yearly. So you might want to check into their training schedule before joining. We have mandatory qualifying every 3 months. Most of our training sessions are mandatory. It is either your ministry or it isn't. We don't accept "I don't have time to train", if it is your ministry, you will arrange your priorities to fit. If you join simply to carry a gun, it's probably is not your ministry. Everyone has a God given talent. If protecting the flock is not yours, don't join, you will be miserable. A security team is not an afterthought. Join for the right reasons.
D

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by CajunChristian

You're right Shawn. Don't go or work from the inside changing the rules. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Don't like the rules, become part of the team, but, remember, our team trains much more than 8 hours yearly. So you might want to check into their training schedule before joining. We have mandatory qualifying every 3 months. Most of our training sessions are mandatory. It is either your ministry or it isn't. We don't accept "I don't have time to train", if it is your ministry, you will arrange your priorities to fit. If you join simply to carry a gun, it's probably is not your ministry. Everyone has a God given talent. If protecting the flock is not yours, don't join, you will be miserable. A security team is not an afterthought. Join for the right reasons.
D

A lot of people with a ccp would have a snowballs chance in hell of passing a tactical qualification course. No joke I saw a woman who had never fired a weapon in her life pass the state required course. Some instuctions from the RO on how her weapon functioned and sight alignment and she was able to pass. It wasn't pretty but she passed. Kind of scarey

[Shawn Braquet]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

A lot of people with a ccp would have a snowballs chance in hell of passing a tactical qualification course. No joke I saw a woman who had never fired a weapon in her life pass the state required course. Some instuctions from the RO on how her weapon functioned and sight alignment and she was able to pass. It wasn't pretty but she passed. Kind of scarey

Couldn't agree more, some people I know with a CCP I wouldn't trust with a super soaker 2000. More the reason why a well organized security team would not want members to carry in church.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Shawn Braquet

Couldn't agree more, some people I know with a CCP I wouldn't trust with a super soaker 2000. More the reason why a well organized security team would not want members to carry in church.

Agreed. I think there have been many valid points presented for both sides of the issue. Pray it never comes to that for anyone but unfortunately we don't get to choose when a fight is coming. If we could there would not be a fight.