Thoughts on CCA meeting tonight on state of Calcasieu fishery

[hewes]

It's the restaurant lobby that is so strong.

[fishwater]

Yeah but like stated last night the east side of the state is all leased. Oyster fishermen there want to keep thier investment a good one so they work to rebuild their reefs. On big lake they suck em up and do nothing to help reseed I think that's where the deal problem is. Something needs to be done along the lines of making them put shells back or help with reef restoration projects if you oyster fish, but I image that's like pulling alligator teeth with those guys. I would be scared to death if all I knew how to do is catch oysters and I saw those graphs of the lake. It scares me just being a recreational fisherman.

[fishwater]

Another thing since when is the Corp not responsible for rocking the channel or that's what I got from the lady last night. They can only rock the federal channel and nothing else is what it sounded like and there are no plans to do anything about erosion except dredge the channel ever couple yrs that makes no sense to me.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by fishwater

Another thing since when is the Corp not responsible for rocking the channel or that's what I got from the lady last night. They can only rock the federal channel and nothing else is what it sounded like and there are no plans to do anything about erosion except dredge the channel ever couple yrs that makes no sense to me.

What she stated was that USACE "PRIMARY" role is to keep the Ship Channel dredged and that their budget doesn't allow for much outside of that. The rocking of the channel along the spoil banks was to keep the earthen dikes from eroding away and releasing the spoils. That was the justification for funding of those projects.

What we need is justification for the other projects mentioned. Rocking the channel at the South end of the lake and another area along the Channel is Moss Lake. Whoever this justification is presented to holds the purse strings. If they get the funding and funnel it through the port the USACE is more than capable of accomplishing the work.

["W"]

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

what was jeff poe's queston? I don't remember....

["W"]

Originally Posted by T-TOP

what was jeff poe's queston? I don't remember....

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

I remeber that, not trying to be rebute what you are saying, but they stated before that question was asked the the weirs are opened according to the salinities and different weirs are open at different times. Just as he was talking about, I wondered why he asked that question.
They also said that unless there are adverse conditions in the lake the weirs will be opend as you state above, which seems unerstandable.
not trying to argue with you but i thought i heard the answers to those questions...

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by "W"

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

I don't recall him saying the management plan doesn't allow it. I recall them continually referencing that it isn't just about salinity. There are multiple factors that determine the opening of the weirs. He also said there is a delayed reaction between the northern portion of the lake and the southern portion by the weirs. Just because the salinity is low up north doesn't make it low down south. I believe MG has said that many times on here.

And again, the management plan was created in 1987. That's 27 years old. And there is nothing now about the science behind marsh management and salinities that contradicts what was known in 1987. The only difference now is there were a couple of one time events (hurricanes) that set back the progress the weirs were making.

[redchaserron]

Originally Posted by "W"

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

What scientific data are you basing that on? Or do you only call for strict adherence to scientific data when you think it supports what's convenient for you in the short term?

There is no question that salt intrusion kills marsh and causes subsidence, if you think having the weirs closed impacts your fishing negatively now, wait until that marsh is gone.

[Tjethro85]

Originally Posted by redchaserron

What scientific data are you basing that on? Or do you only call for strict adherence to scientific data when you think it supports what's convenient for you in the short term?

There is no question that salt intrusion kills marsh and causes subsidence, if you think having the weirs closed impacts your fishing negatively now, wait until that marsh is gone.

What about when the salinity behind the weir is higher than In the lake and they won't open them because it hasn't rained?

[Nickt87]

Originally Posted by "W"

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

The dredge lady was the most valuable person there! Obviously you could tell by how she said "I do this, I do that, I have this much money."

[capt coonassty]

Speaking of oysters, why doesn't LDWF seed north of the harvest line and use the north halve of the lake as a refuge to naturally seed the rest of the lake. LDWF is completely propping up the oyster industry on the lake. At least the private leases insure their livelihood by dumping rock after harvest.

[BuckingFastard]

grew up with jeff and his son. great man and i agree with what you said.

[capt coonassty]

This is some info on a fresh water introduction project.

http://lacoast.gov/reports/gpfs/CS-49.pdf

[MathGeek]

It's time to discuss some potential action items and ask for people to step up as volunteers to support what could be a successful grassroots effort toward bringing positive change (or at least slow down negative changes). Here is one way of organizing efforts:

Oyster Reef Restoration and Protection

Science: MathGeek and FishGeek continue to acquire necessary funding, make data requests, analyze data and distribute results, plan and execute 2015 study, etc.

Documentation of dredging and regulatory non-compliance: Guides, West Cove Anglers

Bring good cameras and start taking pictures.

Advocacy: It's generally considered bad form for the scientists on a project to have too big a role in related advocacy issues. We need someone to step up and take ownership of advocating for change with the LWFC and the legislature over direct oyster management issues. The same or a different person might handle interfacing with the press and with HHS. I think I can take the lead in advocating the removal of limits on black drum to reduce predation pressure. I am also willing to help draft and edit letters to various parties, provide data summaries and talking points, and be some scientific muscle behind the angler advocacy.

Weir Management

Science: Smalls and MathGeek - request data on historical openings and closings (via CCA first, then CPRA directly), compare historical openings and closings with management plan and documented salinity, tides, water levels to quantify track record of compliance/non-compliance and prepare report for distribution. Smalls, can you volunteer some of that time and talent to collaborate with me on this? I already have a letter to CCA drafted asking them to request the data.

Field Reports: We expect possible challenges in obtaining reliable data on historical openings. We would like guides and anglers to support our analysis by providing reliable reports of observed openings and closings including: date, time, location, observed gates open, observed gates closed, observed flow conditions (no flow, inward flow, outward flow, flow speed estimate in ft/s from observing floating debris and distance covered in 10 seconds). Once we have a few hundred days of accurate field reports, we can compare actual activity with the management plan. If Smalls is willing to work with me, we can develop a standardized form to assist guides and anglers in reporting gate openings and closures. A show of hands on who is willing to observe and submit regular field reports would be very helpful.

Erosion and Channel Dredging

Need a couple of people to step up and take a leadership role here. Some reasonable goals are to advocate for spoils from dredging to be used to rebuild a land barrier on the E side of ship channel to separate lower lake from ship channel and to rock the border between lower channel and land to prevent spoils from re-entering the channel.

CCA/S.T.A.R. Boycott

Bucking seems to have the lead on this. We need some other volunteers to develop and execute a plan for extending the boycott to businesses and sponsors next year, and consider how we might help the boycott get more traction in SE Louisiana.

Return to Science and Data Driven Fisheries Management

Needs some core leaders/organizers

This is a grassroots effort that needs to include a healthy contribution from all parties writing letters to LWC members, CCA, and state representatives. Attending CCA meetings and LWC meetings will also be useful. Important talking points are lack of public stock assessment data, unscientific tripletail regs (based on Mississippi life history data with no LA life history or stock assessment), unscientific reduction in speck limit in Calcasieu in 2005, unscientific black drum limit, mistake (since corrected) imposing restrictive largemouth bass limits in Atchafalaya Basin, temptations at knee jerk impositions of additional restrictions on redfish and spotted seatrout.

We can always discuss talking points on SC the day or two before important meetings.

Short term goals should be removing limit on black drum and return of SWLA speck limits to 25 per day. Long term goal is open, science based, data driven management.

Let's get some people volunteering, and then maybe we can develop more concrete strategies at the tourney.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Weir Management

Science: Smalls and MathGeek - request data on historical openings and closings (via CCA first, then CPRA directly), compare historical openings and closings with management plan and documented salinity, tides, water levels to quantify track record of compliance/non-compliance and prepare report for distribution. Smalls, can you volunteer some of that time and talent to collaborate with me on this? I already have a letter to CCA drafted asking them to request the data.

Field Reports: We expect possible challenges in obtaining reliable data on historical openings. We would like guides and anglers to support our analysis by providing reliable reports of observed openings and closings including: date, time, location, observed gates open, observed gates closed, observed flow conditions (no flow, inward flow, outward flow, flow speed estimate in ft/s from observing floating debris and distance covered in 10 seconds). Once we have a few hundred days of accurate field reports, we can compare actual activity with the management plan. If Smalls is willing to work with me, we can develop a standardized form to assist guides and anglers in reporting gate openings and closures. A show of hands on who is willing to observe and submit regular field reports would be very helpful.

I'd be happy to help as much as I can in a technical capacity.

First let me say this though: you are going to have a hard time getting all of that information out of CPRA, because I seriously doubt that they have it. CPRA took over operations of the weirs in 2012, and Leanne presented all of the data on the openings since CPRA took over that role.

Prior to 2012, USFWS had the responsibility for operating the weirs. I believe LDWF may have even been a part of the operations at one point. There is some data on the openings in the report I'm sending you.

Basically, I'm not sure if petitioning CPRA is going to get all the information you want, because I don't think they have it. You may have to get it in bits and pieces from CPRA and USFWS, if USFWS has maintained thorough records of that information.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I'd be happy to help as much as I can in a technical capacity.

First let me say this though: you are going to have a hard time getting all of that information out of CPRA, because I seriously doubt that they have it. CPRA took over operations of the weirs in 2012, and Leanne presented all of the data on the openings since CPRA took over that role.

Prior to 2012, USFWS had the responsibility for operating the weirs. I believe LDWF may have even been a part of the operations at one point. There is some data on the openings in the report I'm sending you.

Basically, I'm not sure if petitioning CPRA is going to get all the information you want, because I don't think they have it. You may have to get it in bits and pieces from CPRA and USFWS, if USFWS has maintained thorough records of that information.

Data since 2012 is much better than nothing.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Data since 2012 is much better than nothing.

If Chuck posts those presentations, that data should be available shortly.

[BuckingFastard]

i talked with one of the engineers that was doing the dredging. he said that we're too cheap to pay for it to be done properly and all they do is basically agitate the silt and let it cruise on down the channel in the water. he said places like florida and south texas actually use the material and build levees and land. it was just not in our area budget to pay for it to be done properly.... instead we put millions into building a little loop thatll direct traffic to a new casino and be more of a headache for all of us.