Are you serious?

[PathfinderNI]

It's hard to discuss matters of the bible with non-believers because it takes faith in Christ and His word to believe that what the bible says is true and infallible. For the scoffers out there, you will have your chance to explain to an almighty God once you pass away why you didn't accept his excruciating sacrifice and bloodshed on the cross of Calvary for your atonement.

As for the aforementioned subject matter, it is true that in Old Testament times under the Law Dispensation which specifically pertained to the Jews, those who had same gender sex were to be stoned, along with witches, people committing bestiality acts, murderers, rapists, and even children who cursed their parents. In the New Testament after Christ fulfilled all of the law by living a perfect life, believers from then until now are under the dispensation of grace. In this period, although Christ delves more into the thoughts and intents of the heart, doesn't excuse outward wickedness and immorality, but rather allows for believers to get forgiveness so as to not face punishment later when judged by Christ. It is in this time period where the "Judge not lest ye be judged" scripture that everyone loves to quote and misquote comes in, which is specifically referring to judging one's motives. It is not referring to refraining from judging in your own mind according to the bible, whether something is immoral or not!

In this PC world we now live in, the only ones who don't have first amendment rights are the so-called "haters" who dare speak up against immorality and other evils of today. I for one am a bible believer, and aim to rear my kids in this fashion and protect them from the aberrant, sinful behavior that is so prevalent today.

[MathGeek]

23 You, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, you will go down to Hades. For if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in you, it would have remained until today. 24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, on the day of judgment, than for you.”

Matthew 11:23-24 Emphasis added

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by PathfinderNI

It's hard to discuss matters of the bible with non-believers because it takes faith in Christ and His word to believe that what the bible says is true and infallible. For the scoffers out there, you will have your chance to explain to an almighty God once you pass away why you didn't accept his excruciating sacrifice and bloodshed on the cross of Calvary for your atonement.

As for the aforementioned subject matter, it is true that in Old Testament times under the Law Dispensation which specifically pertained to the Jews, those who had same gender sex were to be stoned, along with witches, people committing bestiality acts, murderers, rapists, and even children who cursed their parents. In the New Testament after Christ fulfilled all of the law by living a perfect life, believers from then until now are under the dispensation of grace. In this period, although Christ delves more into the thoughts and intents of the heart, doesn't excuse outward wickedness and immorality, but rather allows for believers to get forgiveness so as to not face punishment later when judged by Christ. It is in this time period where the "Judge not lest ye be judged" scripture that everyone loves to quote and misquote comes in, which is specifically referring to judging one's motives. It is not referring to refraining from judging in your own mind according to the bible, whether something is immoral or not!

In this PC world we now live in, the only ones who don't have first amendment rights are the so-called "haters" who dare speak up against immorality and other evils of today. I for one am a bible believer, and aim to rear my kids in this fashion and protect them from the aberrant, sinful behavior that is so prevalent today.

Pathfinder, for my part let me say this, I have no ill will towards anyone who is doing what they choose to do, as long as it does not cause others harm.

My problem with this thread, center's on a few people choosing to use this as a pundit to drum up some sense of self righteousness that in its end effect condone's bigotry.

Bigotry is wrong.... Period... Such conduct is not only wrong to the natural world that we see around us each day, It's conduct that is condemned in the bible with many various discussions centering around "Judge not lest ye be Judged"

It really is pretty simple, If you are a believer... then live as god wished you to live and do not offer judgment upon others just because they live their life differently than you. That is what god has instructed you to do... no if's and's or but's about it.

If you are not a believer then you should live your life as best as you can for your own and your family's benefit.

Slapping a coat of paint on it and saying "Only a believer can understand" is not going to help things either.


I agree that the church has it's place, and it certainly has the power to move people to higher moral standards, But let me blunt..... In order to do so and thereby improve things all around... The church must first hold itself and it's members to those same higher standards.

I have dealt with various types of bigotry first hand in many painful ways.
My wife and I have adopted and are raising two children who are of mixed race. We didn't do that so we could win PTA awards at Parent of the Year Banquets.... As a matter of fact i like to make jokes about the fact that my wife and i are crazy... we had one foot out the door to a life of cruising the caribbean and instead got pulled right back into dirty diapers and helping with homework / little league practices etc.

Throughout this process i have had old friends turn their back on me because i chose to bring a mixed child into my house. I have seen people treat me as a second class citizen because the child in my grocery cart is mixed.

So if your expecting sympathy from me that "bigotry is okay... as long as your a believer"... you can take that idea.. and stick it where the sun don't shine.

As long as we are burdened with some "better than thou, and i can mock you. because i am going to be saved" sense of self righteousness..... .... well i really don't think i need to go any further than saying... is that what god really wants you to do? And if it really really is what god wants you to do... are you sure... this is who you want to follow?

[Clampy]

I have dealt with various types of bigotry first hand in many painful ways.
My wife and I have adopted and are raising two children who are of mixed race. We didn't do that so we could win PTA awards at Parent of the Year Banquets.... As a matter of fact i like to make jokes about the fact that my wife and i are crazy... we had one foot out the door to a life of cruising the caribbean and instead got pulled right back into dirty diapers and helping with homework / little league practices etc.

Throughout this process i have had old friends turn their back on me because i chose to bring a mixed child into my house. I have seen people treat me as a second class citizen because the child in my grocery cart is mixed.

[/QUOTE]

Hats off to you my brother.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Goooh]

Great points ace.

It's funny how if you question anything in the bible, or interpret it differently, then you are a non believer. An atheist.

Who here said they don't believe in a creator? Who said Jesus was a joke?

Self righteous folks jumping all over the name calling...

[dave]

I agree with ACE 100% Stop this thread before pg. 10!

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[SULPHITE]

I googled "religious debates"

I found 15,000 hits from various Internet forums...all were a carbon copy of this thread...

This horse has been beaten so bad you can't even make glue from from dang thing...

[meaux fishing]

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by SULPHITE

I googled "religious debates"

I found 15,000 hits from various Internet forums...all were a carbon copy of this thread...

This horse has been beaten so bad you can't even make glue from from dang thing...

No way you read them all that fast

[SULPHITE]

Originally Posted by Goooh

No way you read them all that fast

I read like the micro machine guy

http://youtu.be/j2egGfd5j_k

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

Pathfinder, for my part let me say this, I have no ill will towards anyone who is doing what they choose to do, as long as it does not cause others harm.

My problem with this thread, center's on a few people choosing to use this as a pundit to drum up some sense of self righteousness that in its end effect condone's bigotry.

Bigotry is wrong.... Period... Such conduct is not only wrong to the natural world that we see around us each day, It's conduct that is condemned in the bible with many various discussions centering around "Judge not lest ye be Judged"

It really is pretty simple, If you are a believer... then live as god wished you to live and do not offer judgment upon others just because they live their life differently than you. That is what god has instructed you to do... no if's and's or but's about it.

If you are not a believer then you should live your life as best as you can for your own and your family's benefit.

Slapping a coat of paint on it and saying "Only a believer can understand" is not going to help things either.


I agree that the church has it's place, and it certainly has the power to move people to higher moral standards, But let me blunt..... In order to do so and thereby improve things all around... The church must first hold itself and it's members to those same higher standards.

I have dealt with various types of bigotry first hand in many painful ways.
My wife and I have adopted and are raising two children who are of mixed race. We didn't do that so we could win PTA awards at Parent of the Year Banquets.... As a matter of fact i like to make jokes about the fact that my wife and i are crazy... we had one foot out the door to a life of cruising the caribbean and instead got pulled right back into dirty diapers and helping with homework / little league practices etc.

Throughout this process i have had old friends turn their back on me because i chose to bring a mixed child into my house. I have seen people treat me as a second class citizen because the child in my grocery cart is mixed.

So if your expecting sympathy from me that "bigotry is okay... as long as your a believer"... you can take that idea.. and stick it where the sun don't shine.

As long as we are burdened with some "better than thou, and i can mock you. because i am going to be saved" sense of self righteousness..... .... well i really don't think i need to go any further than saying... is that what god really wants you to do? And if it really really is what god wants you to do... are you sure... this is who you want to follow?

I think Ace just won. Hard to come back on that. jussayin

[Montauk17]

Fast forward to 4:00....it can atleast make you say hmmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNVLGSvEYg

[BassAssasin]

I'm a believer. But I'm staying out if this one!

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by BassAssasin

I'm a believer. But I'm staying out if this one!

X2 on being a believer and staying out of this. Nothing to be gained by either side discussing it on the Internet.

[BassAssasin]

Exactly

[Top Dawg]

Originally Posted by Dogface

X2 on being a believer and staying out of this. Nothing to be gained by either side discussing it on the Internet.

Correct.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Clampy

I have dealt with various types of bigotry first hand in many painful ways.
My wife and I have adopted and are raising two children who are of mixed race. We didn't do that so we could win PTA awards at Parent of the Year Banquets.... As a matter of fact i like to make jokes about the fact that my wife and i are crazy... we had one foot out the door to a life of cruising the caribbean and instead got pulled right back into dirty diapers and helping with homework / little league practices etc.

Throughout this process i have had old friends turn their back on me because i chose to bring a mixed child into my house. I have seen people treat me as a second class citizen because the child in my grocery cart is mixed.

Hats off to you my brother.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
I've had the honor of meeting Ace's son. He is an awesome little man and is damn lucky to have such a great dad.

[MathGeek]

16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Hebrews 12:16

[Clampy]

I have no problem if you want to believe.
It helps a lot of people but people who use religion as shield of bigotry is the issue.

1 commandment
Don't be a C×÷T

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[AceArcher]

I just want to clarify, for me this discussion has not been about who are believers or unbelievers. It has been about the undeniable fact that everyone should live a moral and just life, regardless of whether they believe or not.

Saying to someone that chooses not to believe or that "sins", that you are a better person because you do believe and / or dont commit the same sin they do, is both hypocritical and bigoted. No one goes thru life without committing sin, not regular people or harvard grads.... no one.

Like i said earlier, I do believe that a good church can be of benefit. We do as a family fairly regularly attend church, especially sunday schools for our children. I am of the opinion that they should be able to learn of church teachings and then make up their own minds on being believer's or not.

However, when we start hearing things like god only loves christians, and its only people who kick in extra at the collection plate who get to spend eternity in heaven..... we tend to look for another church which has less bigoted minds.

Like i said before, If there is a god, and if when i stand before him and he judges me.... if then he bases his judgement of me upon whether or not i gave him lip service on sundays and helped the preacher buy a new caddy with my tithe.... then that's not really the sort of fellow i want to spend eternity with anyway.

If however he is the sort of god, who will judge me based on my action in life.. will judge me on how i treated my wife, children, my friends, my enemies, and my brothers & sisters... then good times and bad, failures and victories, i am ready to be judged and if he finds me worthy, would gladly spend eternity at his side.

Thats it for me on this subject matter...
Bless all of you, whether by god or not.