Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Clampy]

You're right ace I'm sorry MG. I've seen prohibition ruin a lot of lives and I get to worked up about this issue.

[AceArcher]

Okay...

I would hazard a guess that you can find a study showing that a stiff wind can be associated with a higher risk of "risky sexual behaviour" in teens. Drugs do not drive the reproductive urges of teenagers, hormones do. The biological need / desire to mate is something hard wired into every species on this planet. As a young man i used to think that i needed to get a hot rod car in order to have any chance of getting a date. As i have become older i have realized just how foolish i was. But i can tell you for a fact that i worked my butt off to get a nice car

Cannabis use does impair you, as does every legal / illegal drug. What cannabis does not do is take over your mind and force you to smoke wacky weed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is more than adequate scientific evidence showing that people are perfectly capable of being safe, solid members of society even though they partake of cannabis on a recreational basis.

Agreed on the third statement... Isn't that the point? your partaking of a drug on a recreational basis to in order to "take the edge off, enjoy an adult beverage...." etc whatever word you want to describe getting a bit buzzed.

For what its worth, i would say that Clampy is ignoring far, far less scientific studies than you are

In regards to the final bit. Sure designated drivers are a great idea. But you still have not answered my question. If you choose to partake of "weed" were it to become legal would you do so at a time when it's likely that you will need all of your skills, mental and physical, or will you do it in a downtime similar to when you would likely enjoys a scotch on the rocks now?

You don't even need to answer. You would do so when it's safe to do so... same as every other reasonable responsible person on the planet.

[Clampy]

1. Cannabis use is associated with risky sexual behavior in teens.

2. Cannabis use impairs motor control.

3. Nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


No need to debunk these. You said it yourself. Straw man arguments.

Really are these the reasons we need to put other wise law abiding citizens in a cage ?

1. Being a teenager is what causes risky sexual behavior

2. that's the point.

3. And? Far less of a risk than any and I mean ANY other intoxicating substance on earth.

No one is tripping on weed. Believe me I tried. Once you bake it into something and eat it the liver Metabolizes it into a different substance called 11 hydroxy metabolite which is WAY stronger than smoked cannabis and that doesn't make you trip. Closed eye visuals maybe.

Dude i have read that study that says three out of four kids get their marijuana from dispensaries.
And that's all they did was ask them if the ever used medical pot.

From experience I can tell you dealers use " medical" as a sales pitch. So when the kid gets weed from a dealer and he has told him that it was medical Or from a dispensary Of course that's how he is answering the survey.

You could have saved time and said.


" Drugs are bad Mmmmmm Kay !"

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Clampy

1. Cannabis use is associated with risky sexual behavior in teens.

2. Cannabis use impairs motor control.

3. Nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


No need to debunk these. You said it yourself. Straw man arguments.

Really are these the reasons we need to put other wise law abiding citizens in a cage ?

1. Being a teenager is what causes risky sexual behavior

2. that's the point.

3. And? Far less of a risk than any and I mean ANY other intoxicating substance on earth.

No one is tripping on weed. Believe me I tried. Once you bake it into something and eat it the liver Metabolizes it into a different substance called 11 hydroxy metabolite which is WAY stronger than smoked cannabis and that doesn't make you trip. Closed eye visuals maybe.

Dude i have read that study that says three out of four kids get their marijuana from dispensaries.
And that's all they did was ask them if the ever used medical pot.

From experience I can tell you dealers use " medical" as a sales pitch. So when the kid gets weed from a dealer and he has told him that it was medical Or from a dispensary Of course that's how he is answering the survey.

You could have saved time and said.


" Drugs are bad Mmmmmm Kay !"

Somehow, I doubt your inability to follow careful reasoning, represent it accurately in your reply, or formulate any coherent reply based on reason and evidence are winning over many neutral observers.

You have managed to remind me of Cliff's buffalo theory from Cheer's:

Cliff expounds his "Buffalo Theory" to Norm:

“Well, you see, Norm, it’s like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it’s the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.

And that, Norm, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers.”

And that, Clampy, is why you always feel smarter after smoking dope!

[Clampy]

This makes me wanna smoke a doob but work and laws won't let me so I guess it's off to the hard drugs. Where's my beer !

[Clampy]

I'm glad these uniformed ideologies are in the minority now.

[AceArcher]

This is not pointed at anyone... but might i suggest that we all take a break / breather from this thread for a while.

It is human nature to be passionate about what you believe in.

But sometimes reflection can bring important things to light.

Perhaps a 1 day break is in order?

[AceArcher]

And perhaps to take people's mind of things, here is a link to a short music video about the power of dedication and purpose, It's a true story.

You have to actually watch the video to understand as the song is just kind of repetitive / dance... but it does a good job of emphasizing the wow parts of the video.

[Clampy]

http://truthsquad.tv/?p=2241. No this is why.

[Clampy]

Cannabis actually has Neuroprotective qualities unlike alcohol. Even the gov knows. That's why they got the patent.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Clampy

Cannabis actually has Neuroprotective qualities unlike alcohol.

Yep, THC protects the brain against overwork!

The neuroprotective qualities are especially effective protection against math and physics.

Originally Posted by Clampy

To much science to go through. 24000 per reviewed studies. Science is on my side. Have fun being mad in a few years when it's legal MG.
peace I'm out.

You're right because you are going to win, and you're going to win because you are right.

Can anyone name this logical fallacy?

One can always fake some science to drive political agendas (global warming anyone?)

It is much easier to fake the foolish voters in California and Colorado.

Louisiana voters are smarter than that.

[Clampy]

To much science to go through. 24000 per reviewed studies. Science is on my side. Have fun being mad in a few years when it's legal MG.
peace I'm out.

[Clampy]

Hilarious.

[Montauk17]

Ron Paul: Legalize all drugs - YouTube

Ron Paul: Legalize all drugs - YouTube

[Goooh]

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Goooh

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

X2...MG,can you tell me your opinion on why hemp is illegal? It has no effects like weed and the list of products that can be made from it is almost endless.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Montauk17

X2...MG,can you tell me your opinion on why hemp is illegal? It has no effects like weed and the list of products that can be made from it is almost endless.

The reasons behind the outcome of any political process or seldom simple or easily summarized, especially decades after the event when the more readily available histories have all been revised and doctored to influence contemporary decision making. I haven't looked hard enough into documentation closer to the original event to sort out likely contributing factors and their magnitude from the later revisions more motivated by desire for change.

Does whether or not gun control had racist origins impact the wisdom or rightness of current gun control efforts? The case for RKBA can be made from the 2nd amendment, from fundamental considerations of how liberty and political power should work in a Constitutional Republic, from the Bible, and from consideration of man's natural right to self-defense from tyrants and criminals.

Likewise, regardless of whether or not drug laws put in place many decades ago were influenced by ulterior motives and corporate money, the wisdom and rightness of each current drug law can be assessed and considered without depending on decades old history which may not be accurate. I've already stated my support for repealing most Federal drug laws, because (not involving interstate commerce), regulation via Federal legislation is an overreach of Federal power. Laws regulating possession, use, and intrastate transfers of drugs should be a state level issue, driven by the needs, values, and interests of each individual state. If the passing of the overreaching Federal laws was unduly influenced by competing fiber industries, then this is even more evidence that the matter should have been handled at the state level.

The case for the degree of regulation of any specific drug should be informed by all the available scientific evidence, by the expected impact and effects of the proposed regulation (or de-regulation) on the people of Louisiana, and by the values and moral compass of the people of Louisiana.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Goooh

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

I have much more personal experience and direct evidence than you realize with the ability of cannabis and other drugs to ruin people's lives.

If I had anything approaching my experience and evidence regarding the ability of super-sized fries and big macs to ruin lives like recreational drugs, I'd be leading the charge to regulate McDonalds.

Drugs destroy lives.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I have much more personal experience and direct evidence than you realize with the ability of cannabis and other drugs to ruin people's lives.

If I had anything approaching my experience and evidence regarding the ability of super-sized fries and big macs to ruin lives like recreational drugs, I'd be leading the charge to regulate McDonalds.

Drugs destroy lives.

Why not go after the pharmaceutical drug company's? I have seen it first hand how the system gets abused and MILLIONS of people are addicted to these drugs. Most of them have horrible side effects.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Montauk17

Why not go after the pharmaceutical drug company's? I have seen it first hand how the system gets abused and MILLIONS of people are addicted to these drugs. Most of them have horrible side effects.

False dichotomy.