Deity debate
 

Please feel free to debate it here.

What is there to debate? The best informed decision is based upon some really really old books. What I don't understand is this: why is everyone so adamant about being right?


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That should stir the pot a bit, lol.


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I am most certainly not what anyone would consider religious by the normal standard. I can't remember the last time I stepped foot in a church unless it was a wedding or a funeral. I do believe in God absolutely. God may not be the same to me as it is for everyone. I see God when I hunt, when I look at the stars, when I think about how much of a gift my wife and children are. Is my belief the right one? I don't know and if it isn't I'll pay the price. I just know in my heart we didn't just appear without help. I love when an athiest brings up the big bang theory. I just ask them how that happened. Genesis says God created the heavens and the Earth. Didn't say how. Have never talked with an athiest that wasn't dumbfounded by that.

There are just things in life that show me god exists. Small things and simple things but not so small when you think about them. When you have extra and share you keep getting blessed with more. Your tomatoes are doing good so you give some to the elderly couple down the road that can no longer garden. Does it mean you'll be blessed with more tomatoes? No. But when you go out Saturday morning and that fish limit comes easy well ya just gota love it. Hens are laying good and you share and your tomatoes really start putting on. If you look it's there. Karma or God but who says karma isn't God's nickname?

What does The Bible say about retaliation and "snitches"?

Nice try Maco. Turn the other cheek. It also says an eye for an eye. I openly stated I would not consider myself a religious man by normal standards. Are you and pox neighbors by chance? Just a joke. Even God has angels to take care of not so pleasant things. Sometimes the balance needs to be reset.

I respect your right not to believe in God. But you better pray your right.

I truly believe in God and try to live a Christian life. Do I screw up, sure. If I am right I will spend eternity in heaven, if I'm wrong I am still enjoying life more than I was before I became a believer. If you are not a believer and you are wrong where will you spend eternity?

Debate...well I will chime in my dime...

Have a brother that has PHD in Theology...Ordained Southern Baptist Minister, another brother that is a Pentacostal Preacher and two nephews that are Pentacostal Preachers as well as a future wife that is highly devoted in our church...and my mother can practically quote 99% of the Bible....but all of these are not why I believe...
2 aircraft incidents, colon cancer stage 3 survivor, given 1 yr in 1997...have had multiple broken bones and ribs which should have resulted in death, two GSW's that could have easily been 6-12 inches higher...

Yes I see God in most everything...I do read my bible, but not nearly as much as any of the above mentioned do...I backslide daily, but I am reborn daily...

Every day is a gift, make no mistake...life is gone in the blink of an eye.

I was a Medic and Nurse for 29 years..I've seen many many "Miracles" in my time...I absolutely believe...but that doesnt mean I don't lose my faith and get mad at times too..
Hell, I have been with out a job for 4 months...have bills backed up and no way to pay them...I have to believe there will be a door opened for me soon...if I didnt I would go crazy...

Thanks for reading...maybe said too much, but it was my dime

True that. I believe and I'm wrong no biggy. Nothing happens. You don't believe and you're wrong. Well it sucks to be you. Not sayIng the way I believe is enough to do the job. If I'm wrong I pay the price.
It really gets me that the people that claim to be the open minded ones are the least open minded ones. Even if you don't believe how hard is it to leave someone alone in their beliefs as long as they aren't messing with you? Be athiest idk. Be gay idk. Just live your life and go about your business.

Where were the GSW's if you don't mind me asking. I'm no bible scholar and not pretending to be. As long as God gives you another day it's another chance. That I know in my heart.

My decision had/has zero to do with any really old book. I admit that I have spent time reading that really old library of 66 books from 40 different authors spanning over about 1500 years and the most recent being about 1900 years ago, but my decision on whether there is a god or not came before any of that reading ever happened. That moment was 15 years ago when God used an ordinary person at my job to reveal a couple of very important things that have changed my earthly and my eternal life forever

1. He loves me more than I can ever comprehend and He loved me just as much prior to my believing He was real as He does today 15 years later.

2. He wants me to love Him back just a hair as much as he loves me.

3. He wants me to understand that I am not perfect and that He knows that and because of that He sent Jesus Christ down to live a life here on earth and be a forever sacrifice for us. And all we have to do as acknowledge that gift and open that gift from Him to be considered part of His family.


Since that day, I have learned that I can not ever win the debate over whether God exist in the form we Christians believe. It just makes no sense to a nonbeliever. I know because I would debate you until the sun came up and down that it was all hogwash.

So I am not going to say any more on the topic and surely not debate it, but the bible had nothing to do with me changing my mind. It was a real experience and continues to be every day real experiences. I will close with 2 things

1. I don't have to be right. If I am wrong, it is over when I die just like you so in a weird way we tie. But if I am right, then there is no a tie at the end. So the believer doesn't have to be right, but the non believer better be right. We get so passionate sometimes about our belief because we have people we really care about and love that we are worried about them because we believe in the consequences of not accepting Jesus Christ. Sometimes we really really struggle with how to handle that concern for people we truly care about.

2. Don't worry about believing the bible, but focus on the life of Jesus Christ and figure out what you believe about his time on earth. His time on earth is believed as a real 33ish years by every historian and scholar - believers and nonbelievers. You have to walk away with believing something about Jesus

1. Are almost 99.999% of all historians wrong and a guy name Jesus from Nazareth really never lived? That it was all made up by people afterward to start a following in which all of them died trying to tell people.

2. Was he a pathological liar and scam artist because of all the things he claimed and all the things he did and said?

3. Was he psychotic in that he actually believed everything he was saying, but nothing was really true. It was all made up fiction stories?

*The challenge with 2 & 3 is even nonbelievers of his day and our day including all other religions say nothing but good things about him

4. Or could all of it actually be true and Jesus is who he claimed to be. Send from Heaven to be our sacrifice. That he died a brutal death as a sacrifice for us and then rose from the dead to once again be with The Father. Thousands claimed to have seen him after he died.

Maybe there is another scenario that can be believed, but I don't what it could be. I know that my first 32 years of unbelief was hung up on the bible, this mysterious God figure, and religious hypocrites. None of these actually matter. It is how you answer the question -

Who was Jesus Christ?

4.

I wish Salty Cajun would ban this BS on this site. This is a fishing site. Keep your opinions of your religion to yourself or go to another site for your trivial babble

I was just joking too, Duckman. It was just ironic to me that the first person to express their faith on this thread in 2 pretty lengthy posts was talking about "snitches get stitches" yesterday and "revenge is best served cold."

I am no Bible expert but I always thought that one of Jesus' main lessons he taught while on earth was forgiveness.

Even while being tortured and hanging on the cross one of the last sentences that he said was "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do" about the men who murderered him.

Maybe I missed Sunday school the day Jesus was hanging from the cross and hollered, "SNITCHES GET STITCHES **+**ES! JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU GET SERVED YOUR COLD DISH OF REVENGE!"

Please explain how I am confused about this one Duckman...

Someone's been reading Lee Strobel. I was just like you, and had a very real, whether to me or in an absolute sense, experience. I was an "inside man", if you will. I understand everything you're explaining, as it's very similar to the same rhetoric I orated in a VERY public forum.

However, no matter of faith (however great or small mine was) could ever make the math right. I dug deeper.

I realize that there are several archetypal things that we experience within our human condition, and it's easy for factions to form when folks believe like-minded stories or teachings that are aligned with their upbringing or previously held beliefs (or perhaps beliefs that fill a very real void).

I will never argue with anyone about their right to hold any belief, however silly I find it to be. I'm pretty much a dumbass most off the time, and I wouldn't expect anyone to believe anything, much less everything, that I think is true.

As for Jesus' life on Earth, I don't have a single problem with a third of the Holy Trinity coming and living among us, and ultimately dying to find a loophole for our complete depravity. My problem is believing what humans wrote about it.

On the bright side, if I'm wrong (although basic agnosticism can't really be wrong or right), perhaps I have fire insurance...?

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

-John 10:28-29 (KJV, none of that translated-from-arabic nonsense :) )

Also, please understand that I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and none of these posts are specifically directed at any one person. I only quoted your (barbarian's) post because it provided a base from which to jump.

I'll end with this...above all, I believe in LOVE. After all, you can buy oxytocin in a bottle :)

Not trying to start a fight with you by no means and if it came off as so I apologize.
I explained that I am not what most would call a typical Christian. I don't even go to church. I do believe there is a balance to be kept though. I know exactly what you are refering to and do I think that person would have made the same choice as an adult? No not at all. Some wrongs need to be righted though. Who's to say those spikes didn't teach him a lesson that later on saved his life? Not saying I'm right just saying some things happen for a reason no matter if we like it or not. Like I said earlier. Even God had angels for not so pleasant things.

Well written barbarian!

Who is Jesus Christ? My Savior.

Question
Why is god so pissed? For god so loved the world he gave his only son. Ok, I get that point. But you got your son back a month or two later. Why is he such an egotist. Worship him but not false idols? If your so great, why do you feel you need to be worshiped? Why cancer, terrorist, murder, rape, etc etc.

Also another question. Are you telling me that some dirt poor kid growing up in the slums of India drinking piss and eating crap out of the gutter to survive his whole life can't get into heaven even though he's never even heard of your "god" but struggled his entire life just to survive.

I consider myself agnostic. Something bigger than me is out there. I just can't believe in god.

I guess you guys don't believe in the big bang being the form of all life.

Oh the big bang theory. I'm so glad you brought that up. You believe in the big bang? How did that happen? In Genesis it says God created the heavens and the Earth. It doesn't say how though. Have fun with that one.
If you don't believe I understand. What I don't understand is why you are being a douche. Newfish I think all of your posts have been on the past two threads that have mentioned religion. Why don't you get your mom to fix you a sandwich, move out of her basement and get a hobby.

Believing in God doesn't get you into heaven. Even the demons believe in God. Believing that Jesus is the only way into heaven gets you into heaven. No matter how great of a person you are, your works cannot get you into heaven. God sent his son Jesus to be the atonement for our sins so that we can come to him. Its really that simple. Now on another note, a true believing, confessing that your a sinner and that you can't make it on your own, and turning your life over to him will be evident in your lifestyle. Its a one time decision and a lifetime of worship. Good works wont get you to heaven, but living for Jesus will make you desire to follow him and do works that you never thought possible.

Worst of all newfish you aren't even a smart enough troll to realize we're just having fun wasting your time. Probably cutting into your internet porn time. Lets keep going. I have plenty of beer.

To answer this question, In the great commission we were commanded to go out and make disciples of all nations. This is why it is so important for us to spread the gospel of Jesus because without it people are dying and going to hell. Thats why missionaries are so important, but even those who aren't called to be missionaries still are called to spread the good news.

Keep personal shots out

You did see the title before you opened the thread, right. Did ya think it was gps coords for some secret honey hole? It's a COMMUNITY fishin website. Go find a moslim fishing site if the good news offends ya. Hope ya'll don't mind me speaking for ya!

Deity debate
 

Who are we to judge?

Love as you would expect to be loved, treat as you would expect to be treated.

If we are judged in the end, God won't be as fickle as the book makes him out to be and the purity of our hearts will be the deciding factor.

How crappy will we feel when the gay person we ridiculed in 4th grade is better dressed at the wedding than everyone else because their heart was full of love for all and lacking in judgement for any.

After all, aren't we all God's creation? Let him handle the nitty gritty, and let us love like we've only got 100 years on this earth.

Got a limit of flounder this eve. And I had a drink and thanked the good Lord shortly after.

I agree but also not disagree but say I don't know. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I don't think I have to go to church on Sunday to show that. Some of the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen carried a bible and wore a suit. Some of the best people I have ever met carried a bible and wore overalls. The bible doesn't make the person. The person makes the bible.
I believe someone can give their life to God and never step foot in a church. If you truely believe your gifts in life come from God (true gifts not bday presents) and you repay those gifts by being a good person and being kind to others and honest is that not enough? I know Jesus died on the cross for my sins. He shed his blood to give me eternal life. I try everyday to be a good caring person. I fail but if he lets me wake up tomorrow I'll try again.

This guy gets it. You can't earn righteous, it has already been purchased. It's free gift to anyone willing to accept in their hearts them simple fact that God became man, lived a sinless life, was cruxified ,died, was buried and rose from their dead as our substitute. All sin past present and future will be made as white as snow. Simple everyday faith in that alone is the gateway to heaven. Once you accept that fact you will see your life change. You will feel conviction of all these wrong you do and you will begin to hate them. Any questions read your bible. It's all in there. I am by no means a saint, but if I go to hell it's not because of what I do or did, simply for what I failed to believe.

Roger that. Sorry.
Sorry to newfish too

100? Dang you're more optimistic than I gave you credit for. I'm hoping for 40 and it's only a month away.lol

Your right. Look at the 2 sinners crucified with Jesus. This is a huge lesson. There was a reason for this. While one mocked him through other surrendered and exhibited faith by asking Jesus to remember him in heaven. Jesus responded to his faith and said today you will be with me in paradise. Saul, or their apostle Paul a murder.
But as far as not going to church ect that's where everyday faith comes in. That's the flesh talking. Once you accept Jesus as your savior you get a big help from three holy spirit. And then you will want to do their things pleasing to God. Not by your own power but his. I encourage anyone to read Romans chapter 7.

Well said.

Let me get this straight Fishfish... You believe there "something out there bigger than you", that everything began from nothing, that it started instantaneously, and that from a "big bang" a bunch of quarks, anti-quarks, neutrons, electrons, protons, formed an atoms, then a bunch of different types of atoms formed and collided and decided to form a chain, and enough chains had a party and decided to form amino acids and proteins so that they could build a single cell organism. That the organism, could then mutate into different organisms, until it decides its tired of being a simple organism and decides to become a bigger life forum....oh wait, it would have to wait on an livable atmosphere....but that would mean that some of those single cells would have to decide to become plankton and the plankton would become trees that would decide that it wanted to make oxygen so that the other simple cells could become animals and the animals could become intelligent enough to design a computer where we could discuss all this. Man Fishfish...you got more faith than me, friend.

I grew up in a church, but there came a point in my life were I questioned God's existence, mostly because I could not understand eternity, how he could create everything out of nothing (same thing you believe), and I could not understand God. But it really came down to two choices. Either I believe in the first paragraph I wrote and believe when we die, we go into oblivion, or I believe in the man that claimed to come from God, was God, and was man. And I believe the writers that said they witnessed this man perform miracles, showed us how to love one another, and who was hated so much for claiming to be God that they killed him AND THEN rose on the 3rd day and escaped the tomb that roman soldiers were guarding. Also what is not discussed much but the Word tells us is that he was seen by thousands, that others were also raised from the dead during those days, and that these days were so magnificent that we're still speaking of it this day. So again, I have two choices, I choose to believe the latter, because 1, I don't have enough faith to believe the former, and 2) I've witnessed miracles in my life, and in friends and family. Also I came to the conclusion, if I were able to understand God, I would actually place him in a box with limits. So I don't have to understand everything, only that He is the Great I Am. oh, and about your questions about the poor kid, if God is anything he is just, and his Word tells us that he judges us based on our knowledge. So I believe God will only judge my poor friend on his knowledge and his choices based on that knowledge. so if he never heard of Jesus, of course God would not put him into eternal hell. But anyone who knows about Jesus and and rejects the call to "follow him" has made their choice on where they would prefer to spend eternity. It really is that simple. God Bless you all. I really enjoy reading your posts, even the ones I don't agree with. sorry for such a long post.

One more thing before I hit the sack. If you live under their law, ie there 10 commandments, you will be judged by God. His judgement handed down will be hellfire every single time. All these 10 commandments do is define who you are, but doesn't do anything to save you from who you are. That's where Jesus comes in. Sadly most churches don't preach this. They stop at their law, defining who man is but don't give them solution, which is the cross of christ

Actually, not a big fan of Lee Strobel style of writing. I was just trying to find a way to put into words what happened to me. Religion makes it too complicated and its not.

All I know is what happened to me and at 32 years of age, this tiger lost his stripes and came home from work one day and was a different person than who went to work. My wife knew that night and my kids who were 5 & 3 knew something had changed enough to talk about it at day care where their sitter asked my wife what had happened to me. I left that morning a strong nonbeliever and came home knowing that God was real and something happened to me that I can't explain other than it was magical, miraculous, supernatural, etc. I believe because I feel beyond any shadow of a doubt that God revealed himself to be that day. It was a personal experience that had zero to do with anything that I read, heard or church. I know that from experience the more I try to explain my experience and Christianity that most will scoff even more so this is it for me on this topic. I do believe God gave me this story above to tell every so often. Just felt this was one of those moments. It is not to convince anybody of anything, but to give somebody out there a chance to hear a real life God moment that happened to me in todays time. It happens all the time to people all over the world. It doesn't make me better and definitely not perfect. And in some ways, it has made my life much more difficult.

If anybody would sincerely like to hear more details, shoot me a PM and we can meet for lunch or something.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Also, just as important is not placing God in the shadows of everything unknown...because soon enough, we will know those things, and then one may feel the need to argue on God's behalf for some dogmatically held belief!

Neil Degrasse Tyson said this:

"Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [enter a bunch of "Sciencey" stuff]...If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem.

I sincerely believe that you sincerely believe this, and I celebrate the change in your life!

In the end, we should all just try to be a little better each day we're still here. Most days I'm an abysmal failure.

This is what I get for having a couple Fat Tires and jumping on Salty Cajun to see if anyone has had any luck in the Prien area since the salinity has finally risen to a respectable level.

Sorry for all the long-windedness!

I don't know your story and won't claim to. I do know the exact moment that I realized God was really there and had given me something so special to show me he was there. It is a night I regret having ever caused but one I am also so very thankfull for. Even above my children I was shown a gift from God so special.

Sorry, I don't believe your pretense, and you obviously don't understand my point. Just because we are becoming more and more knowledgeable about science, God is not becoming smaller. I think he becomes more awesome because he created it all. God is the creator of all science. I love science, and physics. We will never understand God (he tells us that too). We are not called to understand, we are called to believe. and it really is 2 answers. Yes, or No. Put me down for a big fat YES!!

one in hip and one in left glute muscle...both close to arteries...both during heavy fire....

I completely understood you. I also didn't explain myself well enough.

The operative words were "if/then". I took the quote out of another context to illustrate a point.

Like you said, if we think we understand it all, then, we put God in a box. Also, if we think that it's God's hand in EVERYTHING that we DON'T understand, then we still put God in a box (that grows smaller each day, b/c humans are pretty good at learning new things...just really bad at a host of other things).

My point is, we could all do well to stop putting God in a box.

I believe Jesus is Yahweh. He lived a sinless life, died on a cross for my sins, and rose from the grave. It was Jesus who spoke the world into being, told Noah to build an ark, made the promises to Abraham, and delivered Israel from Egypt.

Actually, I believe I've won the troll award in a landslide. You're at home worrying about this instead of drinking beer, or fishing. I'm sitting on my rig watching computer screens with nothing to do, and it certainly hasn't cut into my porn time. Me>U

Any new Earthers here ?
You know. Dinosaurs were put here to test our faith ?

Noah's ark..... Now that's an interesting story

Oh I wasn't worrying. I was having fun and drinking beer. Had already got my daily bj so I didn't have much else to do but read your rants. It was quite entertaining I must admit.

Bible says earth is about 6,000 years old. How come science proves the earth to be MUCH MUCH older?