looking for natural gas boiler
 

I am on a tight budget and so i need to do this for under $100. right now I have a cheapo very "basic" propane burner and an 80 quart boiling pot.

I would like to avoid buying propane tanks for boiling seafood. I figure even if its not cheaper then propane, a natural gas seafood boiler is going to be a lot less trouble then messing with those tanks.

the trouble is I don't know anything about natural gas burners so most of what I have seen are just the natural gas burner jet rings that I assume you unscrew and swap out the propane burner :confused: or maybe you are supposed to build your own burner or something.

do you buy and screw one of these burner jet rings onto one of those cheap propane burners or just buy a complete natural gas boiler setup and where do you get them at a good price?

also, do cooking times go way up with nat gas or are they able to put out just as much heat as propane

All you need to boil with nat. gas is a 1/2 or 3/4 pipe with a cap and drill a 1/8 in. hole in the cap.....Nat. gas works with propane cooking burner too but I have found not as hot...Ace in laplace sells a burner replacement that has a bunch of brass nozzles or whatever they called....I don't know how it would work on standard home gas line but I know a guy uses it for his store to cook n boil and it is hotter than hell....Seems to be hotter than standard propane....

hmmm, well I was told you need all those nozzles to add heat or cooking times take forever.

I just cant see how you "fix" or attach the burner securely in place? I don't weld or know a welder.

I do see the burner rings with all the nozzles at the hardware stores and that's what got me wanting to do this but I want it safe, I don't want it to be a hack job.

If you want to only boil all you need is a pipe with cap and a hole drilled in cap.....Elbow the pipe out and go to home depot and get the size clear plastic line they sell and a hose clamp to clamp it to pipe and to existing gas line...Of course you need a gas valve at the end of your existing gas line to adjust pressure....If you want to cook you better off with a burner but if you put a flat plate under the pot on a pipe burner it works ok....You can swap out the burner with all the nozzles but I don't think a home line has enough volume....Maybe with propane....I personally used this at this store and it is hotter than propane but he also has a 1-1/2 to 2 inch gas line coming in , I don't remember....Nat. gas is cheaper than propane....We run 2 nat. gas burners inside and 2 propane outside for fishfrys and the propane use a tank each after 2 fry's while the nat. gas uses 15-20 dollars for 7 fry's.....

yep, its only for boiling crabs with, roughly 1/2 to a full bushel at a time.

I was just told by people (free advice is worth what you paid for it lol) but they said no way is one jet going to put out enough heat and it takes forever to cook because nat gas has no pressure behind in like propane does so "they" said I needed one of those rings with all the jets so it puts out enough heat to do the job. but there must be enough pressure for it coming into the house because the water heater and central heaters are putting out 150,000 BTUs on the house gas supply. I know stoves and gas valves on things regulate the pressure they let pass so I wasn't expecting to hear I might have a pressure supply issue with it.

this will need to be be running off of a 1/2 gas line from the back of the house. would drilling out the hole on my propane burner get me enough heat from that so my boiling and cooking times will be equal to propane or close to it? if so what size bit should I use?

Nat. gas is not hot as propane on a standard home gas line....Adding more openings only reduce flow pressure unless you have capacity...I used the one hole pipe cap on a 1 1/2 inch gas line and it worked just as good as propane....When the gas company swapped meters and went with standard gas line it worked ok for me but it will not equal the pressure of propane....I tried a cooking burner on nat. gas to boil and it sucked....It was actually a burner from a water heater....Cooked great....Took forever to boil....If you already have a pipe cap on your propane just get a cap and drill a bigger hole and you still have the one for propane if you not happy with it....Just reduce or upsize the pipe for the hose...

There is a guy here in LA.. That is at all the outdoor show's. He builds and sells an AWESOME N.G. SS boiling burner...

He is and was at the Sportsman show every yr.. But I can't remember his company or brand name.. I'd just google it..

His burners are the Stizzz. I google it for U.. IT's G4 burners. They be $300+. SS will last a life time. Look it up...


Gunner

yes, I think you are talking about g4 burners in Raceland and there are a couple others around in regular steel all right at $300 price but that's out of my price range even though they look nice. I would be looking for something complete that was in the $150 or less area which might be a little unrealistic for a custom made burner.

ok, I have the "jet burner" I assume since its the one with the one cap and one hole under a short pipe to direct/contain the flame.

so you say I just need to drill a new cap for nat gas use? that sounds easy enough to do but how do I figure out the drill bit size I need?

I can see where this step is easy to get wrong so is there a website place that tells me what size is best or at least a starting point?

Mine was 1/8....It just cost the price of a hose and 2 clamps and a couple fittings and new cap to see and if you think it can go bigger just drill 1/16 in. bigger but I think 1/8 should do....That guy in raceland may be where that store owner bought his and it is the fire of hell but like I said he is running a 1 1/2 to 2 inch line so it has a lot more volume...Can't say what it will do on a residentual line.....

This is what I'm speaking of and it claims residential gas is sufficiant ....Ace in laplace has them....

yes, that's what I had in mind

I have something like this now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bayou-Classic-Jet-Outdoor-Cooker-/141484926863?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f128 a78f

and its all welded except for the single brass end cap on the 90 at the end of the pipe, and it has a flame tube instead of an enclosure for wind protection so I was thinking its not a practical donor to convert over to natural gas so ....

I was thinking I could buy one like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Gas-Cooker-Propane-Stand-Burner-Camping-Turkey-Fry-Bbq-Jet-High-Pressure-/161628726760?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a1d2 a5e8

and switch the burners out with one like you pictured http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Gas-Cooker-Propane-Stand-Burner-Camping-Turkey-Fry-Bbq-Jet-High-Pressure-/161628726760?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a1d2 a5e8


if I bought these two and put them together (and if it would work of course) I would be around $110 for it

I just don't know what is involved in switching those burners out, if I would need brackets welded on to support it or what and then the clearance questions, would the flame be too close to the pot or not close enough?.

I don't know what is going on but this website keeps replacing my links (6 times already after the link was posted and tested to be working and correct, I come back to find it is changed or not working) but here is the correct link for the burners I had in mind: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jet-Burner-2...item338e9d4f70

I was also thinking about this one as a better option I can see might be easier to attach the other burners too since it has a flat plate under it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sportsman-Se...3D161628726760

Didn't look at them, if you can change just the orifices, ( cheep if they change able) ng is not as hot as propane hints the need for bigger orifices for the same heat-cook times. Tieing into (community ng) be careful! How you do it. Most gas co. Don't like that, and will pull your mater or lock your gas off!!

no com gas taps here, its residential connection at the house after the meter tapped from a gas line in the house.

this link shows exactly what I have now (just stumbled across it): http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Port-Outd...item5b0d0bbb75

which is a 3/8" steel pipe with a 90 screwed onto the end to direct gas upward with a brass acorn cap screwed on top of it with a hole drilled in it to be the one jet it has.

im thinking it wouldn't do much to just drill out that one hole when im trying to boil an 80 qt pot of water with it, or am I wrong?

Got you, probably not changeable orifices. But maybe, what I was saying is if the gas company comes by for any reason and the "tie in" was not done by a "license plumber" it could be more trouble then it saves. Not saying never done it just telling you from experience.

gotcha, yep I do things the right way according to building codes only.

the one jet I have can be drilled out but im not sure if doing it would give me the results im after with just one flame point under lower pressure but then I just don't know since I never tried this before.

maybe before buying the other stuff to put something together, I think i'll get another 3/8" brass acorn cap and drill it out to test how it boils the pot but the pipe on it is only 3/8" to start with and lil bubba was saying I should keep it to 1/2" so that's a question mark already.

We use those for woks on the buffet. I would go with this set up. They put out some serious heat and u can control a low flame and not have to put up with soot. You will have less cleaning on the out side of your pot.

well what I was asking about is I was thinking I could get the propane cooker I linked to as a base for the frame and all that and that design has a bottom plate that I think might give me the easiest way to attach the ring jet thing after I take off the casted cooking burner to replace it with the ring jet that lil bubba was talking about. I just don't know if the wind guard ring is going to be big enough to fit the ng ring jet inside it.

the 23 jet ring burner is 9" wide OD so does anyone know if I need a full 1" clearance around it from any wind screen ring or would just 1/2" clearance be ok? because I don't know if this flame is going to spread outward or just straight up, if straight up the 1/2" should be ok but if it flares out I don't know by how much.

then im not sure if I even need or want a wind screen shield for it? do you really need one of all your doing is boiling?

I've been looking at doing the same thing. Using or building a stand for the 23 jet burner. There are videos on youtube with NG setups people have put together using the same burners, mostly for home brewing setups. All have claimed some fairly quick boil times. There is another company besides G4 in La. who is making something for NG like I am looking to build.

http://www.bayouboiler.com/

Natural gas has more BTUs than Propane. However, you will need more pressure and volume coming from the supply line. The best thing to do for a permeant solution is to run a separate supply line from the meter with another regulator. This will slow you to increase the pressure and volume supplied to the burner. I would run a 2" supply line also as someone stated above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Propane has about 4 times more BTU's than natural gas. And if I remember correctly, it requires about 5 times more air to get a really good flame.

This is why there not a "simple" conversion to switch from propane to Natural gas.

So if you drill out the hole to get more gas, this also requires 4 or 5 times more air to get the best flame.

I appreciate all the helpful suggestions but I have no budget to create a new gas feed just for randomly boiling crabs once or twice a month. I think everyone can understand that is a little too much expense and trouble for "at the most" 3 or 4 boils a month.

so there will be no new gas line or anything other then plug and play solution that will fit my needs in connecting to the 1/2" gas line that ends at the back of the house. this is a 50ft 3/4" line coming from the street to the house, and then another 35ft 1/2" gas line plus 3 or 4 90's along the way after leaving that shutoff valve going up into the house, across the attic feeding the water heater and stove, and then out the back of the house. so for the most part there is little to no use of the gas supply other then the water heater so it will be like having a designated 1/2" gas line just for the burner.

keep in mind, nothing requiring involving the gas company, new lines run, or anything like that with the exception of possibly having the gas company come out and adjust my regulator to supply a little more gas pressure to the house using the same line if need be is what I am looking for, a basic plug and play solution.

the one thing that keeps rattling around in my little brain is these $300 cookers say to just hook it straight to your house gas line and don't say anything about needing dedicated lines, more pressure, or larger gas line sizes. maybe its just something you find out about later but im confused why there aren't many people claiming they don't work since we all know most people buying them will hook them up just as I am thinking of doing. I think what you guys are saying might be true but then the people selling them are not saying any of this is needed so im back and forth on this not knowing for sure.

Our wok burners were refractory lined. They do sell set ups made of metal for that style burner. It sounds like you need to get quotes and weigh it against how many bottle refills you can get for it. I have learned the hard way that trying to do it cheap costs more in the long run.

well at $25 a bottle its not the end of the world but it does get pricey for someone on a tight budget, but the real PITA of it is the times you are running low and may or may not have enough gas to finish the boil and you cant just stop go get another tank, come back and then restart the boil, that's just a mess and its never something you can save, its always a mess.


IIRC I get 4 boils out of a jug so price wise call it $7.50 a boil figuring in gas $ to go exchange the jugs.

My local walmart has propane refills for $15. You're paying too much!

ACE in Laplace charges by the gallon , you can fill up before empty...and cheaper than what you exchanging for...

I have propane refilled at our Uhaul store because they only charge for what you buy....I was doin the Blue Rhino swap which runs $20-25 for a 20lb bottle vs I just had 2 30lb bottles for our camper filled for around $20 for both tanks and they were completely empty

much like gasoline prices, where you are makes a big difference in the price you pay, here its $25 anywhere you go around here.

sounds like your from laplace too

yep, guys are super nice and always helpful, i used to always go there but lately they always started some BS about date codes and "your bottle is too old you need a new one" and whatever. I think the dragon lady is on em hard to increase sales.

I got sick of them always trying to tell you the bottle is out of date and next time they wont fill it and you have to buy a new bottle, never fails.

last time I went there in December it was the same BS, the bottle we got from WM the month before is said to be "years" out of date so they cant fill it and we need to buy a new one, so I said "fine i'll just go to WM then".

well suddenly everything was fine and they will fill it "this time" wink wink but next time you need to buy a new bottle :pissed:.

they also are no more partial charges. they really are getting cheeky there now saying you pay full price no matter what level your bottle is at.

at wallyworld you just swap out and there is no sales pitch BS involved

My uncle sells propane and propane accessories. He told me that for insurance purposes the exchange program only fills bottles to 13 to 15 pounds. A propane dealer fills to 18 to 20 pounds. So your paying more in more ways than one for the exchange. I only do the exchange when I have a bottle about to expire.

This thread looks to be the classic bait and switch, ask for advice then discard it all and preach why his way of doing it was right all along

still so bored with your life you have to troll my threads I see, how pathetic :rolleyes:

We call that an ASK-HOLE where I'm from. Ask for your advice and either negates it or does the complete opposite.

well come on and give us an example where this was done in this thread.


its called remedial reading class, sign up for it, then you will see advice was given , accepted and talked about.

more questions were asked along with other related info not originally thought about that is needed along with formulating ideas to consider those aspects. look it up in the dictionary, its called a discussion.

but then those who merely seek to criticize just for the sake of criticizing things never bother to read or understand what it is they are criticizing.

the only advice I ignored in this thread was turning my house into a commercial kitchen setup with 2" gas lines involving special gas meters, permits, inspections, and parish approval. the thread asked for how to do this on a residential house gas supply with a 1/2" connection.

not even the densest person sees this as ignoring advice simply because I choose not to do something on a large commercial scale for "occasional" boils at home.

but then neither of you cares about the truth, just the opportunity to take shots and be critical and insult others rather then offer advice or help to members.

that type of person is more suited to LA sportsman membership and not the majority here who are helpful and friendly. you guys try very hard to bring this website down and give it a bad rep.

thanks, I didn't know that. I could be wrong but I don't think my local ace used to put more then 12 lbs. I thought that was all they were allowed to fill them.

I never gave much thought to it beyond a place that fills them at the best price so I can see its a good idea to drive farther if you need to so you know its being done right.

its really strange but I never thought about it being important to shop around for propane places and I just always only looked at the price.

thank you guys for helping me see how important it is to shop around for this stuff, it just never dawned on me before how much different these places can be.

I get mine from ace in laplace and when my tanks empty they put twenty #...Two weeks ago my tank was about 3/4 empty and they only charged for what they put in...An amerigas swapout tank is only 15 #....

thanks, most times when I bring them in they are empty or close to it, good to know they do fill them all the way.

I don't mind using ace but im sick of their "tank is out of date" crap so I think i'll go to wallyworld and cherry pick the most recent dated tanks so I don't have them giving me grief over it anymore. that's the main thing that soured me on them was that BS. I go there so often for all sorts of things I should have an employee number lol.

still looking for the right "donor" grill to buy for the frame and burner attachment type so I can swap to that ring jet burner. I want to try and avoid welding so im looing for a quick bolt on swap deal yet the designs are often specific to the burner used and not easy to tell. think i'll go look at the boat show or maybe if I went to cabellas or something where I can see different versions of how they are built in person I could better figure out the one I think will take the least work to swap out.

thanks for all your help bouncing ideas around on this and thanks for everyones help in this thread (except for the two idiots)

I always wonder why the Amerigas felt so light when I picked them up....thanks for the insight.. I will start to fill my tanks and only swap when the tank is empty..

I found this clip showing the 23 tip burner in action connected to a 1/2" line tapping into a 3/4" main line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfsu5Kj_THM

of course no way to tell if they made any provisions for more then the average residential line pressures for it but its still a nice video.

If you scroll down it says 1/2 in. pipe with 3/4 ball valve but the feed line looks bigger than 3/4.....

ok, yep I see it now, the pipe on the wall is definitely a 1" line they are coming off of.

Alright, so you're an expert on classes and can't afford a backup propane tank to plug in if you run out during a crawfish boil. Nor do you know about the economics of a long term investment to reduce your cost of ownership by refilling your own tanks at the local hardware store.

Maybe the vibration in your truck is so unbearable that you can't stomach the extra miles to the hardware store? The blue rhino is just so much closer?

im so happy for you that your whole life revolves around my posts, quite sad and pathetic really :spineyes: lol.

UPDATE:

I tapped into the gas line in the attic and ran a water hose from the 1/2" ball shut off valve to the 23 jet burner outside (because it was a quick easy way to have a long hose with quick connect fittings on it) and im happy to say it works nicely so far just laying on the top of my old propane burner. the only thing I can use to compare at this time is the intensity of noise it makes and with the natural gas 23 jet it is about 2/3 as loud as the single jet propane burner noise when on full.

even if it is slower to boil with, as I suspect it will be, it does show it will be a fantastic outdoor cooker for just about anything. the only question is will it make a good boiler for large pots.

until I get a burner stand built for it, I cant measure time to boil an 80 quart pot but for now it seams to be throwing a nice flame even though its hard to see the flame in daytime.

now I know that it works I can go through the work and expense to run a gas line through the attic to where I want it to be and then after that's all set up I can look into getting a boiler frame and stand that is suitable to be modified to fit the 23 jet burner or if need be maybe have one made from scratch is my next task.

just ordered this cooker: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301562479231?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

it looks very suitable with a large enough diameter ring to fit the 23 jet natural gas jet burner in with a little side clearance and its definitely much more solidly built then most of the ones I've seen, plus its all powder coated finish and not just painted like the others.

you will melt that stand if you boil a few sacks of crawfish. I can promise. my dad built me one I used it yesterday with a heat shield around the pot so wind could not hit the flame 9 MINUTES to get water boiling. ill take a picture this after noon

I am sure you know what you are doing..."Tapped into gas Line" just be carefull.....would hate to read about a fellow Sportsmen getting blown up.....http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/...3701427645362/

no need to worry, I know what im doing.

I ran gas lines for houses as well as plumbing and electrical even though my main profession was a/c repair and installation.

the company I worked for did it all so every now and then we also got the contract for gas and electrical work.

Awesome Thread
 

Lol, wow this thread is winning. I guess we all have an expiration date but some people work very hard to expedite that date.

LMAO