LDWF meeting to talk about Big Lake Oysters
Items 9 and 10 could effect Big Lake.
You can listen to the meeting on your computer..... see last line. Agenda for August LWF Commission Meeting - Baton Rouge Printable Version Release Date: 08/04/2014 The next regular Commission Meeting will be held at 9:30 AM on Thursday, August 7, 2014, at the Wildlife and Fisheries Headquarters Building located at 2000 Quail Drive, Baton Rouge, LA The following items will be discussed: 1. Roll Call 2. Approval of Minutes of July 3, 2014 3. Commission Special Announcements/Personal Privilege 4. Recognize Chevron for social responsibility support of Whooping Crane reintroduction 5. Recognize Recreation Trails Program Achievement Award 6. To Hear Enforcement Reports July 2014 7. To Hear Notice of the Secretary Reopening Certain Waters previously closed to Commercial Fishing and Certain Recreational Fishing as a result of the DWH Oil Spill (No Commission action required) 8. To Consider a Declaration of Emergency for setting the Opening Dates of the 2014 Fall Inshore Shrimp Season 9. To Hear a Report on Calcasieu Lake Oyster Resource 10. To Consider a Declaration of Emergency for the 2014-2015 Oyster Season Dates and Harvest Limits for the Public Oyster Areas of Louisiana 11. To Hear an Inland Fisheries Update Report 12. To Consider an Amendment and Hear Final Public Comments on the Port Eads Possession Limit NOI 13. To Consider A Declaration of Emergency for the 2014-2015 Waterfowl Season Dates 14. To Consider a Notice of Intent to Amend the Rules and Regulations Governing the Possession of Potentially Dangerous Quadrupeds - Big Exotic Cats to conform the rules to Act 697 of the 2014 Regular Session of the Legislature 15. Set December 2014 Meeting Date 16. Receive Public Comments 17. Adjournment To listen to the meeting live via webinar, register at https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/reg...43668592657153 |
maybe they can keep having the meetings that have anything to do with our area 3 hours away, that way nobody voices any concerns when asked because nobody is there. sounds like a plan.
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Maybe they did hear all the complaints and will review this. Maybe we give them benefit of the doubt.
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If you cannot attend in person, you may attend via webinar and then send an email to commission members afterwards with your concerns.
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Yes because surely it is a conspiracy that the LDWF is holding their meetings in the meeting room that was built for commission meetings in the LDWF building. |
Trout limit change 25 to 15 zero data or science
Triple tail limit in force from none to 5 over 18inches ; zero science Oyster dredging stocks have depleted to all time low since oyster dredging Full science and biology assessment Ignore and let's see what happens |
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I think the best interests of the ecosystem will be served well if we focus on the task at hand rather than the usual swipes, insults, and rhetoric. Please attend via webinar if you cannot attend in person. In your email follow-up on the meeting, please be restrained and focus on several action items:
1. Close Calcasieu Lake to Oystering in the 2014-2015 oyster season. The data shows the oyster reefs are in abysmal shape, and oysters provide essential ecosystem services that benefit other fisheries and the overall health of the estuary. 2. Double the recreational and commercial limits on black drum (or eliminate the limits completely). Black drum exert tremendous predation pressure on oysters making it difficult for the over harvested reefs to recover. Black drum are in no danger of extirpation, and reducing numbers state wide will assist with oyster stock recovery. |
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I think in the near term it will be more effective to ask the commission to do things that are within their power to do (easily). Asking the LWC for expensive projects is not as promising. If Calcasieu Lake ever gets effective erosion or salinity control, I doubt it will come from LWC or LDWF. It's also not clear if the drill snails or the black drum are the bigger issue. Black drum are a big problem for oysters statewide. Also, the E side may not have been oystered since 2010-2011, but it was hit very hard that year, and multiple factors likely contribute to the lack of comeback. The assessments looked better on the E side in 2012 and 2013 (compared with 2011), but I have not seen 2014 yet. The W side has been oystered every year. |
Please just stop the dredging! Most ridiculous thing I've seen, rapping natural habitat like they have.
Gill netting was shut down for depleting a natural resource.. The same reasoning should be applied in this instance. Guarantee this committee has a combined iq of 50, bunch of idiots period and they don't care nor know how to open or respond to emails. |
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But a bit of gently and kindly applied pressure, focused at a time when the policy makers are considering a specific question has a better chance of success than cynical insults that they won't even know about. This meeting is a rare opportunity for real and tangible progress. |
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ship channel dredging? |
I agree
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Yea I agree, although it was the oyster fishermans cynical insults and threats against Dan Morrish that overturned the cancellation of dredging. I appreciate all your statistical research and analysis on these controversial issues Math G. Really is frustrating seeing the effects of these now flattened reefs being depleted. |
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Since CCA has remained silent, policy makers have little to fear if bad policy continues to negatively impact the fishery. We need to use gentle persuasion, data, and polite appeals to the best interests of the future fishery. I bet the oyster fisherman would gladly support raising the black drum limits. |
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you should see how they work, they circle endlessly until they cant find a single oyster left before they move to another spot. oyster dredging IS as bad and harmful as the gill nets were and it should be outlawed forcing oyster fishermen to go back to less destructive methods like tonging or harvesting by hand |
Oyster reefs in west cove will take years and years to ever get back to normal if they close it off for good
It might be beyond repair |
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Therefore, I would recommend contacting Commission members today with your input regarding oystering. Some points to consider: 1. Damage to oyster reefs by dredging not only harms the future of the oyster fishery, but also harms the entire ecosystem and fishery. 2. Healthy oyster reefs provide essential ecosystem services including filtering of anthropogenic inputs, benthopelagic coupling, biological resistance to algae blooms and subsequent hypoxia, nursery areas for finfish, areas of concentrated benthos, and high quality habitat. 3. Over harvesting of oysters was a key factor in the decline of many fisheries along the southeastern Atlantic and Gulf coasts of the United States, including the Chesapeake Bay and Galveston Bay. 4. Scientists estimate that each 10 square meters of high quality oyster reefs produce an additional 2.6 kg/year of finfish and large crustaceans. Some references: Beck, M. W., R. D. Brumbaugh, L. Airoldi, A. Carranza, L. D. Coen, C. Crawford, O. Defeo, G. J. Edgar, B. Hancock, M. C. Kay, H. S. Lenihan, M. W. Luckenbach, C. L. Toropova, G. F. Zhang, and X. M. Guo. 2011. Oyster Reefs at Risk and Recommendations for Conservation, Restoration, and Management. Bioscience 61:107-116. Beck, M. W., K. L. Heck, K. W. Able, D. L. Childers, D. B. Eggleston, B. M. Gillanders, B. Halpern, C. G. Hays, K. Hoshino, T. J. Minello, R. J. Orth, P. F. Sheridan, and M. R. Weinstein. 2001. The Identification, Conservation, and Management of Estuarine and Marine Nurseries for Fish and Invertebrates. Bioscience 51:633-641. Coen, L. D. and R. E. Grizzle. 2007. The importance of habitat created by molluscan shellfish to managed species along the Atlantic coast of the United States. ASMFC Management Series #8. Grabowski, J. H., and C. H. Peterson. 2007. Restoring Oyster Reefs To Recover Ecosystem Services, p. 281 – 298. In: Ecosystems Engineers: Plants to Protists. K. Cuddington, J. E. Byers, W. G. Wilson, and A. Hastings (eds.). Academic Press, Burlington, MA. Henson, M. 1993. The History of Galveston Bay Resource Utilization. Webster, Texas. Newell, R. I. E. 2004. Ecosystem Influences of Natural and Cultivated Populations of Suspension-Feeding Bivalve Molluscs: A Review. Journal of Shellfish Research 23:51-61. Peterson, C. H., I. H. Grabowski, and S. P. Powers. (2003). Estimated Enhancement of Fish Production Resulting from Restoring Oyster Reef Habitat: Quantitative Valuation. Marine Ecology Progress Series 264:249-264. Plunket, J. T. 2003. A Comparison Of Finfish Assemblages on Subtidal Oyster Shell (Clutched Oyster Lease) and Mud Bottom in Barataria Bay, Louisiana. LSU Thesis. HYPERLINK "http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-0626103-163535/unrestricted/Plunket_thesis.pdf" Plunket, J. and M. K. La Peyre. 2005. Oyster Beds as Fish and Macroinvertebrate Habitat in Barataria Bay, Louisiana. Bulletin of Marine Science 77:155-164. Rothschild, B. J., J. S. Ault, P. Goulletquer, and M. Heral. 1994. Decline of the Chesapeake Bay Oyster Population - A Century of Habitat Destruction and Overfishing. Marine Ecology-Progress Series 111:29-39. |
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If you would like to see oyster dredging stopped in West Cove, you should make plans to attend the meeting tomorrow or contact Commission members today. Also of interest is the map of the 2014 Gulf of Mexico dead zone, released a few days ago by LUMCON. Notice the large area of hypoxic bottom water in the Gulf between Sabine and Mermantau. The dead zone area in this region has been growing since the oyster overharvest in 2010, and review of NASA satellite images showing Chlorophyll a concentration appear to provide the explanation. (See: http://oceancolor.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi/l3 ) Two valuable ecosystem services provided by quality oyster reef habitats are curbing anthropogenic inputs of nitrogen and phosphorus (which fertilize algae blooms) and directly reducing algae concentrations by filter feeding on algae. Hypoxic bottom water is caused mainly by the decaying of abundant algae and other photosynthetic biomass after it sinks to the bottom. http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories...4_deadzone.jpg |
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You are not trying to correlate the oyster dredging with increased dead zone now are you? Bit of a stretch as usual |
One of the reasons my colleagues and I have been so successful in science is that we rigorously adhere to the scientific method of testing ideas (hypotheses and theories) against experimental data without bias regarding expert opinions or popularity.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b240PGCMwV0&authuser=0 The hypothesis that chlorophyll a concentrations (as measured by NASA satellites) are correlated with oyster stocks (as measured by the LDWF stock assessment program) is a perfectly testable scientific hypothesis. The hypothesis that hypoxic zone areas (as measured by Dr. Nancy Rabalais and colleagues) are correlated with oyster stocks is also a perfectly testable scientific hypothesis. The logical chain used to formulate the above hypotheses are well established, and the correlations between oyster stocks and algae blooms and hypoxic zones have been experimentally verified in other ecosystems. A preliminary analysis shows that correlation is likely in the near shore waters off of Cameron parish, so it would take a fairly unscientific mind to suggest performing more complete analysis would be foolish. |
This year's dead zone, measured from July 27 to August 2, is smaller than the five-year average of 5,550 square miles, and well under 2002's record 8,481 square miles.
oysters are very good at performing certain ecosystem services by filtration, but they can not process all those nutrients that are found in most fertilizers. The problem is upstream with ag runoff. We now farm fencerow to fencerow with no strips in between the fields to the water. There was a push to start using buffer strips (10' wide native grass and forb strips) along field borders near waterways but as usual people said no, we aren't conforming to what big bad gov't is trying to get us to do:shaking: where you see the largest dead zones are right where one would expect - at the mouths of the rivers and waterways (because they carry fertilizer with them). People farm all up and down the MS River and on up the Calcasieu. There has been a dead zone for decades. |
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It looks like LDWF is recommending to the Oyster Task Force and the LWF Commission that oystering be open in West Cove next season starting Oct 27, 2014 (including dredging), but limited to 10 sacks of oysters per vessel per day. That's quite a bit lower than the 25 sacks per day set by the legislature for the maximum in Calcasieu Lake and the 50 sacks per day limit in the other open areas of the state.
Short of a complete ban on dredging, this may be about the best outcome that could be hoped for at the present time. Depending on the market price, spending the fuel and time to go out for 10 sacks of oysters may not be attractive enough to many harvesters. I'm re-reading a paper right now that discusses all the valuable ecosystem services that are lost when valuable oyster reef habitat is destroyed. http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/marinebio..._grabowski.pdf I think this is a great way to communicate our concerns to other anglers, to state policy makers, and to CCA-types in terms of maintaining habitat and valuable ecosystem services. |
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Agree with all that ^^^^ Oysters do a world of good but hypoxia (dead zones) and oysters are not correlated (you will see that its not mentioned in the the graph you presented also). There have been studies in Chesapeake Bay with hypoxia and oysters and the consensus is that oysters are great and all but definitely not a magic bullet. Oysters essentially can't operate in hypoxic conditions and shut down until the conditions pass (no filtering taking place) Interesting on the greenhouse gases mentioned in the slide also. May also want to read some of N. Rabalais papers on hypoxia and mentions of climate change caused by humans;) http://www.tos.org/oceanography/arch..._rabalais.html CLIMATE CHANGE WILL LIKELY WORSEN LOW OXYGEN I N COASTAL WATERS The world’s climate has changed because of human activities, and it will continue to change even if greenhouse gas emissions are stabilized because of lagging impacts that will last for centuries |
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Yes, that's what it was last year. That is the minimum. Anything other that that will be a stoppage of oyster harvest. Which is what probably needs to happen.
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The stock assessment data puts us in the position of gently educating regarding the importance of habitat and ecosystem services in hopes of opening people's eyes toward the need to rebuild significant and sustainable large oyster reef complexes throughout both the E and W sides of the lake. The sky isn't falling, and overzealous claims that it is damage credibility in future policy discussions. |
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I've read most of the published literature on hypoxia in the Gulf of Mexico, and cited a lot of it in papers I've co-authored.
The suggestion in the above discussion that the hypoxia in the near shore waters off of Cameron Parish may be attributable to nutrient loading from the Calcasieu estuary or negatively correlated with its oyster stocks has not appeared in the published papers which have focused primarily on the role of the Mississippi River and secondarily on the role of mobile muds from the larger rivers and existing sediments. But all the existing evidence supports the plausibility of inverse correlations between oyster reefs in Calcasieu and algae blooms and hypoxia in the adjacent Gulf waters: 1. Oyster reefs reduce the effects of nutrient loading, effectively reducing N, P, and C levels in the water before it exits the estuary. 2. Oyster reefs reduce turbidity in the estuary, allowing sunlight to penetrate deeper supporting more photosynthesis and a greater food web within the estuary. 3. Oysters remove tremendous amounts of phytoplankton from the water, thus reducing the quantity of algae that reaches nearshore Gulf waters and decomposes on the bottom. 4. Oyster reefs reduce erosion by several mechanisms, thus reducing the carbon in existing sediments from reaching near shore waters from erosion and tidal action. 5. Oyster reefs grow and maintain tremendous biomass in the estuary itself, increasing the average trophic level of carbon that enters the system via photosynthesis. Carbon that reaches higher trophic levels is not decomposing in bottom waters during the summer months where risks of hypoxia are the greatest. |
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LDWF will be building a 50acre reef in 2015. Hopefully it goes well. |
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That is as low as they will set the daily harvest limit at. |
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And not everything is published material, some is just common sense. Rivers are what brings in the nutrients, why would the Calcasieu River and the waters that drain into it not be full of nutrients like every other river in the lower US? oysters and hypoxia http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/msc_facpub/160/ Actual oyster filtration potential must be lower than many advocates of oyster restoration assume, and replenishing the bay with oysters is not the means of controlling blooms and hypoxia. http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps...1/m341p299.pdf [SIZE=1][SIZE=1]Recently published models, which allow for spatial and temporal matching of oyster and phytoplankton populations in mainstream Chesapeake Bay, support the conclusion of Pomeroy et al.(2006; Mar Ecol Prog Ser 325:301–309) that oysters cannot, and could not, control the spring blooms that are the ultimate cause of summer hypoxia. [/SIZE][/SIZE] |
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No one is suggesting that oysters offer complete control or are a magic bullet. The question is whether algae blooms and hypoxia go down when oyster populations go up, and if so, by how much? Certainly, maintaining a balanced ecosystem requires more than oyster reef restoration. But if oyster reef restoration could reduce the average hypoxia in the near shore Gulf off of Cameron Parish by 50%, wouldn't this be an interesting and relevant finding? Isn't it worth analyzing the existing data to explore the potential? |
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low to no oxygen is low to no oxygen to an oyster whether its in Calcasieu Lake, Sabine Lake, Florida, Delaware, or Japan. Everything else you have been saying is spot on, just leave the hypoxia out of the list of ecosystem services oysters perform is all. You put a fish in a hypoxic zone, it swims away or dies, a shrimp swims away or dies, an oyster does not have that option so it closes up and does not filter feed. There are studies showing oysters get stressed and die during hypoxic conditions, they can't magically filter out phosphorus, nitrogen, and potassium out of the water when they have no oxygen to survive on. |
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You must have missed this essential feature of the Calcasieu system because you keep mentioning how oysters shut down when oxygen levels drop. The hypoxic zone off of Cameron was not there in late June when Texas A&M scientists measured oxygen levels. It was there in late July when LUMCON scientists sampled the area again. At no time where the waters in the main Calcasieu Estuary hypoxic this summer, but it may be that N, P, C, and algae flowing into the Gulf from the estuary contributed to the size of the hypoxic zone. Further, it has been estimated that at their peak historical levels, oysters in the Chesapeake Bay completely filtered the water in the bay every 3-4 days. Since some oyster reefs have been restored, the complete water filtration time is estimated at 300-400 days. Drawing conclusions on the potential to mitigate hypoxia in the Chesapeake Bay seems ill advised when the water filtration by the oysters is only 1% of what is possible. Calcasieu Lake is much shallower than Chesapeake Bay. The potential exists for oysters in Calcasieu Lake to completely filter the water once per day or more if the oyster reef potential were optimized. Sabine drains a much larger area and inevitably has higher levels of agricultural runoff than Calcasieu. Yet, there is very seldom any hypoxic zone there. |
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Filtration: If you took an aquarium of Calcasieu lake water and let oysters filter it, there would still be suspended particles. Oysters can't filter every particle in there, if they could, then they would filter out the salt and you would be left with nothing but pure freshwater. I would definitely advise against drinking the water still after the filtration process as you may end up sick from fecal coliform:) You are reaching for cause and effect and that is all I am commenting on, everything else about oysters is great. Just leave out the hypoxia stuff. Oysters are wonderful creatures and every estuary should try and find a balance of having enough of them to perform the ecosystem services they provide and still be able to harvest enough for consumption commercially BUT oysters are not a magic bullet. |
Report from LWF Commission consideration of Calcasieu Oyster Issues
Aftering the LDWF recommendations, background, and stock assessments, as well as receiving input from various stakeholders, the Commission passed the LDWF recommendation that the harvest regs next year stay about the same as they were this year. That is, 10 sacks, West Cove only, opening 27 October, etc. The Commission pointed out that they are not empowered by the legislature to change the dredging, but only to set opening and closing dates and limits.
Raymond Little (Lake Charles CCA) was there and did a great job articulating the concerns of recreational anglers regarding the importance of oyster reefs to the sport fishery. A representative of CCA Louisiana was also there and also spoke about the concerns of recreational anglers, the importance of habitat conservation, etc. I spoke for a bit on the importance of habitat and our use of fish as bioindicators of ecosystem condition. As "canaries in the coal mine" the fish are telling is that there is a real problem in the estuary with the benthic food web. I often fail to articulate things as well when speaking as I do in writing, but I think I did manage to succeed in emphasizing the importance of oyster reef food web and habitat contributions, and offered the tangible suggestion of doubling black drum limits as an additional step the Commission could take to help oyster stocks recover from the steep decline in 2010. The feeling I got was that the Commission follows the LDWF recommendations 95+% of the time, especially with respect to oyster harvesting and basic fishery limit issues. Effective policy change likely requires working with the relevant LDWF folks to get them to recommend the desired policy change. This seems to be how CCA has succeeded in issues like reduced speck limits and the imposition of tripletail limits. Merely showing up and speaking is of limited effectiveness if the guy presenting the LDWF policy recommendation is saying something else. I was favorably impressed with most of the speakers, including the "oyster lobby" and oystermen. They seemed to emphasize the importance of scientific management and several advocated depoliticizing the process in favor of a more scientific approach. Patrick Banks (LDWF Oyster Biologist) made a very favorable impression. I believe LDWF is doing a great job with the oyster science within the limitations of their available resources. I think the best interests of all stakeholders will be best served by increasing the focus on the ecosystem services provided by healthy oyster reefs and lobbying toward a more more extensive reef system in the lake. Patrick Banks pointed out that high salinity in the SE part of the lake stresses oysters and makes them much more susceptible to the oyster drill snail, a parasite that kills them. This is a key problem slowing the recovery and reestablishment of reefs in the SE areas of the lake. Apparently, salinity control would be of great benefit to the oysters in addition to allowing the weirs to be open more often. Talking to some oyster fishermen afterwards, I can see no scientific reason why Sabine cannot be opened for oyster harvest. This could take a lot of the harvest pressure off of Calcaisieu and may be a reasonable compromise which allows local fisherman a chance to maintain their income while allowing valuable habitat to come back in Calcasieu. Sabine is in no danger of overharvesting, and could easily provide 2-10x the oyster harvest as Calcasieu. According to this oyster fisherman, CCA has been working behind the scenes to ensure that oystering in Sabine stays off the table. |
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You did a great job man! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk mmm |
I was a bit disappointed with the turnout from SWLA. The oyster folks has several reps, but the LC CCA pres was the only SWLA angler who made the drive. I know the location and time is often not convenient, but even a fraction of the turnout we had for the "State of the Lake" meeting could have an impact over time.
They have these meetings every month or so and there is always a public comment time at the end. Even if there are no Calcasieu related items on the agenda, having a few people from SWLA at each meeting and reminding the Commission that we want to see more scientific management and we want to see greater consideration given to oysters as essential habit and not just a commercial resource to be exploited would have an effect over time. |
Kudos to the CCA past President Raymond Little for representing the Big Lake area.
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But i have sent numuous emails to Patrick with "Zero" feedback |
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The LWF Commission meets almost every month. I'd like to see the recreational anglers and guides who feel strongly about this make it to Commission meetings 1, 2, or 3 times over the next 12 months and speak for 2-3 minutes during the public comment session. A consistent gentle message about the importance of oyster reefs as essential habitat and how healthy oyster reefs sustain the estuary by the benthic food webs they support and how they improve water quality by filtering will leave an impression over time that should eventually have an impact when the annual policy vote comes up. There are always a lot of important LDWF people in the room too at these meetings. If they see that the Commission is beginning to realize the importance of oyster reefs as a habitat issue and the recreational anglers care deeply about this habitat issue, over time, their recommendations may begin to shift, or it least if the data leaves them on the fence about a policy recommendation, they may begin to lean toward habitat conservation rather than the maximum exploitation allowed by their assessments. Bottom line: SWLA anglers and guides who care about oyster reefs should try and make 1, 2, or 3 LWF Commission meetings in the next 12 months. CCA members should also keep up the pressure on CCA to not be satisfied with efforts so far and to seek ways to make real change. On the scientific front, we'll continue to pursue the ideas mentioned earlier in the thread, and also consider if we might find the data to test other hypotheses like the possibility that oyster stocks are inversely correlated with harmful bacteria (fecal coliform and vibrio), which would suggest that the water quality benefits of healthy reef systems extends to these two dangerous pathogens. The dredging issue needs to be taken up with the Legislature. If CCA really means to effect change, then we should see them stepping up here. But whatever their efforts are, it would help if recreational anglers and guides also make some efforts on this front, writing will help, but stopping by your rep's office for a personal visit can be more effective. |
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