WMA Maintenance Budgets
 

Do any of you guys have any information on how the money for maintenance on the different WMA's is spread out? Is there any documentation on how the money is spent at each of the WMAs? Are there any ways for individuals to get involved with the maintenance planning?

Here is a link to the LDWF Budget planning.
http://www.doa.louisiana.gov/OPB/pub..._Fisheries.pdf

The way I see it is that they get almost $21M just for Acquisitions and Maintenance (pg. 39 of document) This does not count salaries, operating expenses, etc. This budget is purely for new equipment and maintenance on WMA's. If you divide that by the 51 WMA's in the state that is about $400,000 per year per WMA. (I'm sure it's not divided equally but this is just to make a point)

I'd like to know where this money is spent on the WMA's that I go to. I see very little maintenance done on these annually (I usually hunt at 4-5 different ones per year) and I just don't see that type of money being spent on Maintenance. Surely there is some type of accountability for this or auditing documents?

Any info here? Any input?

I'd like more info on this also!

I emailed a couple of the area WMA managers to see what information they are willing to share... Ill post the responses if i get any


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24 hours and still no response from the LDWF people that I emailed... I'm not holding my breath

I know a few of these guys. Some of them don't answer emails right off the bat. Some just may not answer period. I can't say I blame them. Been there, done the civil service thing, and the general public always thinks they can do your job better than you. Also, some may just not want their name being attached to any of that information getting out. If this biologist hear tells you that that money isn't being spent, because HQ wont give him any to spend, and his name gets out, how long is he going to have a job? Those WMA managers don't decide if the money gets spent, only where they need it.

Just like in my former position. I didn't decide if money got spent, but where it got spent. It was up to other departments to decide IF it got spent.

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I have hunted Sabine Island, Buck Horn, Jackson Bienville and Big lake (along with Tensas) and have to say by far Jackson Bienville seem to have more attention and money spent with Sabine Island being the least maintained. I understand that it somewhat depends on access to do maintenance but JB has food plots, nice roads and just seems well kept but from what I understand it's one of the least hunted.... I would be curious to know how they decide where and how to spend the money.

If I understand correctly, JB property owners pay for a lot of the food plots, etc.

JB is Weyerhauser land. Weyerhauser is more "conservation minded" than most of the other timber companies in my experience. I had a biologist tell me that if it wasn't for JB, there wouldn't be as many red-cockaded wood******s around.

They burn in JB for quail habitat as well. There's a lot of work put in there. But, it does get used pretty heavily.

Sabine Island on the other hand, does not get used near as much. That has a lot to do with access, and probably just as much to do with the fact that its hard as hell to hunt.

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you forget, they pay $100 for a role of ducktape.... someones always getting rich and id like to know who is taking our money as well. ive seen nothing done and conditions get worse. i think i seen maybe 1000 meters of new rock laid on one road.

budget is tiered like this for 2014:

Whooping cranes
tweety bird projects




north La WMAs















south La WMAs
:grinpimp:

Never realized JB was setup and managed that way but it sure make a difference.... Sabine Island holds/held (been awhile since I hunted there) good bit of animals due to lower pressure than alot of places and I am sure the same reasons keep them from doing much maintenence

One reason for low maintenance on Sabine Island is that it floods often.

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Some of the places that I go to you need a 4x4 truck just to access the parking areas which is ridiculous. I will also say there are some WMA's that are very well maintained like you guys mentioned Jackson-Bienville.... Another that comes to mind is Bayou Macon which has all gravel ATV trails, parking areas, and camping areas. Very nice.

I used to go to Red River WMA every year and I haven't been back in several years because some of the ATV trails that I use to access my areas were impassable with my 2WD ATV. It's literally been 7 or 8 years since any maintenance was done on that ATV trail and the ruts are just too big for my bike. It wouldn't take a whole lot of effort or money to put some culverts and gravel in the trouble areas so this wouldn't be a perennial problem.

How much use does Sabine Island get? In all honesty. You don't dump thousands of dollars into something that a very small percentage of people use. If they divide the money up based on usage, I would put money on it that SI is on the low end of the 50+ WMAs. Getting equipment in and out would be expensive, because you can't just drive it in. Then, there's limited space to drive anything. There is nothing inherently special about it.

I think if the place got more use, you might see more work put in there. But compared to many other WMAs, well, it doesn't compare.

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I am just the opposite here (although I understand it) and I think the ease of access has ruined many a good hunting grounds. There are places we would have to ride ATVs for miles through some tough stuff that are now gravel roads for vehicles. You can literally drive (and I have seen it:rotfl:) a Camaro down a gravel road at Oua****a WMA, park it on the nice shoulder, and duck hunt 50 feet from your vehicle. Same with Boeuf WMA, same with Russell Sage WMA, same with Big Lake WMA, Tensas NWR, etc.

When I am hunting, I want to be as far away from anyone else as possible and will walk as far as I can to do that, but there are very few places where you can be one mile from an ATV trail. My favorite duck hole was in Tensas, it was a long boat ride and then a 3/4 mile walk from the river, now there is an ATV trail right to it.

I think this is one of the reasons duck hunting on some of the north La WMAs has gone way downhill - its way too easy to get around now and places that were once difficult to get you can now drive to them with a Prius:spineyes:


WMAs and NWRs do shut down ATV trails during turkey season and I think it makes a big difference. Would be a circus show if not haha!

I'm not complaining about SI, I was using it for example of a place that I doubt they will ever spend a lot so I doubt it's allocated much.... they don't even have boat launches to maintain unless they are helping out Nibletts Bluff or Salters Bluff

I think these are 2 separate issues... My situation is letting the current roads and trails get so bad that they are impassable thereby hindering areas that already have access... and your situation is the expansion of roads and trails that allow others access to areas that you once had to yourself.

It does suck for you that a spot you spent time developing by hard work and spending time is now available to others but You have just as much access as the guy in the Prius... I don't have the same access as the guy with the 4x4 ATV with the 3" lift kit.

And I do agree that some of these places have WAY too much access... it's hard to get away from a road or ATV trail on some WMA's

Speaking of ATV's. Does the LDWF actually enforce the tire regulations? I know its hard to enforce, but has anyone been checked?

they checked my Prius but I was good
:rotfl:


I have 'heard' of tire violations being enforced per tigerdroppings

first couple yrs they did up at Tensas, Buck Horn and Big Lake. ... seen them issue tickets

Yeah my situation is a different situation I reckon. To answer your question I have never seen any road grading or road improvements happening during the hunting season. Seems they prep the roads before the season and then wiat til after (makes sense I guess). The technicians that normally do this are probably busy doing something else during the hunting season (or took off to hunt themselves:grinpimp:) Feel like it would be pointless because it would get torn up again real soon anyways and folks hunting would probably not want people on big equipment fixing trails while they are out hunting? don't know


as far as budgets go I do know that for federal refuges, money is allocated by usage. More users of the refuge gives you a higher budget. Would think its similar with state WMAs

I am a bowhunter so I usually see these places at the very beginning of the hunting seasons and there are very little improvements from 1 year to the next in most cases... They do sometimes smooth out the roads and trails but Grading costs almost nothing from the Acquisitions and Maintenance budget... the equipment is already there (unless it needs replacement or repairs) and the salary of the individual running it comes from another budget.

I suspect that you are correct on the division of money by usage... If that is the case then West Bay should have a pretty healthy budget and that is a place that I've spent quite a bit of time in... there is no maintenance going on there either... haha

Tensas does enforce tire size.

I think in the instance of somewhere like west bay, that may have something to do with the timber company as well. What sense does it make for LDWF to go in and spend thousands of dollars working roads if the timber company is going to tear them up? Its the timber companies land, and I bet they use those roads more than any LDWF use. Why should LDWF burn funds to keep those roads up?

Those are the ABSOLUTE WORST roads of any WMA I've been on. I quit going because the center axle on my truck got stuck because the damn tire ruts from the log trucks were so deep! And you can't drive around them when its wet, cause you'll just get stuck.

They'd have to put so much rock down in west bay to keep it up, that they'd burn through funding for several WMAs. I'd put money on that.

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I was told that the roads on timber company leased WMA's were the responsibility of the timber company... All other areas like trails, camping, and parking areas fall under LDWF


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I've been told the same. I have no problem with the trails. I like it being a Tad more difficult to get to some areas. Weeds out the people that don't want to put in the work. I think the roads could be better though, but if a timber company isn't concerned about anyone else on the land and only it's people, they aren't likely spend money to fix the roads.

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Up by Upper Oua****a NWR in Union Parish used to be Georgia Pacific WMA. It was leased from GP. The last year it was a WMA they had done so much logging the roads were torn up really bad. GP went in and put gravel on the road, well they put way too much for the smaller cars and trucks and you could literally get stuck in the gravel:rotfl: That place was slap full of turkeys, then they clearcut it all and sold it off in 40 acre segments. A boxstand, food plot, and corn feeder every 40 acres now.


Tensas and Big Lake used to have some very bad roads too. During the lottery hunts if there was a rain, it was pure comedy.

I can see where it would be a fight over road maintenance but if neither want to maintain the roads I think you should be allowed to use an atv or side by side to travel the roads or have a small trail that's just off the road for atv use.

I have seen the Tensas and Big Lake roads so bad you couldn't go in a straight line with 4x4 and then trails get so bad you pretty much needed a boat in some sections.

Still no responses from the LDWF personnel that I contacted... I may have to go all "Freedom of Information" on somebody... I would like to know where this money is spent and if there is anything I can do to help decide how it's spent. This is our public land and I want to ensure it is still available for my kids and their kids.

yep you sure can

lotsa meetings this past week for this very thing
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/37442

but also the quarterly meeting is coming up next Thursday in Baton Rouge
Pretty formal at first, then they have a public comment period at the end where public can talk about anything they wish
(red snapper issues are being addressed in this one)
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/37467

Agreed!

I got a response from one of the people that I emailed (name left out so he doesn't have any repercussions):

We are in the process of answering your questions. But I need to know which WMAs are you referencing and what trails in particular are you concerned about. All of the large WMAs in my District are leased areas therefore we share our trails (which are logging roads) with timber company contractors harvesting pine trees.

I sent back the following response

Thank you for the response. Some of the areas that I have noticed need some attention:

Red River WMA (Now RKY) – There is a road just north of the Yakey Check Station along Hwy 15 and a long ATV trail that skirts the north end of the property.
The ATV Trail in this area got so bad I had to stop hunting it because my ATV did not have a lift kit and a snorkel. (I’ve never seen timber harvests in that area in the 10+ years I’ve been going there)

Grassy Lake WMA – The Camping area just about requires a 4WD truck just to park there (and it was a fairly dry winter this year) and the ATV trails are in overall poor shape too. (Again no timber harvests there)

West Bay WMA – The roads are pretty bad but I understand that they are shared by the timber companies and I see the damage that their equipment causes

Acadiana Conservation Corridor – The boat launch at Hwy 29 is one of the worst I’ve ever launched at. When the current is flowing it’s almost impossible to get back on a trailer because of the direction it faces

These are just of the few areas that I’ve noticed over the past several years. I’m sure there are a lot of other areas.
It just seems to me as an outside observer that a great number of these small deficiencies could be fixed with very little resources and effort and yet we see them year after year
I’ve hunted several other areas of the state that do an excellent job of maintaining the parking areas and trails. That was the reason behind my question of how the budgets are divided
If Bayou Macon WMA can have gravel parking areas and trails why does Grassy Lake WMA get neglected? Is this a budget issue or a planning issue?

I don’t mean to be a bother but as an active outdoorsman I would like to ensure that my children and their children have a place to hunt in the future
As stewards of the land I feel that all outdoorsman would benefit from some improvements in our public lands

Again I thank you for your response and I look forward to further discussions about these topics

I'll be curious to see the responses. Of course, if he doesn't over see any of those WMAs, you won't get a straight answer for any of them. I believe RR, GL, and ACC are overseen by the Opelousas office, and West Bay is overseen by Lake Charles office. RR and GL may be out of Pineville, but I doubt it.

Well those are just a few areas and that response came directly from his boss who oversees ALL of the WMA's (there was a trail of emails back and forth between them, but I didn't post anything identifying them)...

Do you guys have any other areas that you hunt that you would like to get some attention? I would be glad to send him another email with a list. :)

Ok, so the "In My District" comment came from the district supervisor, and the rest was from the Head Biologist of WMAs?

He sent my email to the WMA Program Manager in Baton Rouge (I'm not sure if he is a biologist)... his response was that they are working on getting the answers to my fiscal questions (about budgets and how the decisions are made) but in the meantime he asked which specific areas I was concerned about so they could address them. The District supervisor sent me the email I posted but he did not erase the email trail back and forth with his boss.

So yes, the "in my district" comment was directly from him and the other was a request from his boss.

He did send me another email saying that I was not bothering him and that they encourage feedback from the WMA users and are always looking for areas to improve.

That's one thing I can't fault the biologists (the only ones that aren't hired as biologists are game wardens and technicians) for is being receptive to feedback and being helpful. They definitely do their best to be public servants, at least the ones I've talked to have been. I've conversed with a few of the WMA managers, and I have nothing but positive things to say about them. Very helpful. Hopefully you get the answers you are looking for. Would definitely be nice to see something done about West Bay roads. That was the first public land I ever hunted on, and the only reason I quit hunting there was because of the roads.

I know what you mean... that is one of the reasons I don't hunt at West Bay as much as I used to. I had to alter the areas I hunted because I couldn't access them anymore.

I'm just trying to go at this in a civilized manner and want to genuinely help better our public lands. I don't mind spending some of my own time to help out in any way that I can... even if it's just by sending emails... maybe some of this stuff will get addressed.

I wanted to give an update of my late season hunts at Grassy Lake. They spread gravel on half of the camping area this past year!!! I was able to go in the camping area AND turn my truck around without getting stuck!! AMAZING!!

I never got any responses but maybe my emails helped a little.