wetlands mitigation??
 

Anyone have to mitigate any wetlands lately? past 5 years? what was the process like? cost per acre? wetland percentages? Any info would be appreciated.

Are you trying to build on a wetland? or have property that you want to see if you can qualify for a mitigation bank? It all depends on what type of wetland. Where is the project?

it is property that i would build a home on. it has been deemed wetlands, 35%. it is in the sulphur area.

Can't help you with the pricing in that area. A mitigation bank in that area would probably be for longleaf pine. If you are developing 10 acres with 35% wetlands, you have to mitigate 35% of that, so 3.5 acres of credits is what you would buy. The ones in St Tammany Parish can go upwards of $5k an acre but that is probably different than SW LA and it differs with the quality of the wetland and the soil types. I helped with a project in Allen Parish the year before last where an investment group was doing some restoration work on longleaf pine areas to have as mitigation banks in SW LA. The company was called EIP - Environmental Investment Partners. You can maybe look them up and see what the going rate is for that area.
The people who had some money to invest in these things in the beginning are making a mint on these things, wish I knew then what I know now:rotfl::help:

So the mitigation bank or banks for the area of development set the price? Its not a flat rate set by the corps? i will look EIP up. Everyone i have talked to that actually mitigated said it wasn't bad. The last being 5 yrs ago. Now everyone that i have talked to that has looked into it and talked to the corps or a Firm, was ran off by some outrageous $35000 for 1 acre, or similar price. Whats the most you have seen a 1acre credit sell for? kind of looking for worst case...

I do not know worst case, sorry. The organization I work for has mitigation banks in St Tammany Parish but all our credits have been gone for several years.


And its Ecosystem Investment Partners, sorry

This is one of their projects right up the road from you
http://www.ecosystempartners.com/calcasieupinesavanna

i found them, just left a message. thanks for the help.

I paid $22,500 per acre last year (May 2012). The process was easy, below is a contact if you do not already have one.

[SIZE=3]Frankie Savoy[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Resource Environmental Solutions, LLC[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]337.580.2781 cell[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]225.372.6106 office[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]frankie@res.us[/SIZE]

This was land on the ship channel near Hackberry from Petit Bois Migigation Bank.

Casey, you remember what the wetlands percentage was? And thanks for the info.

If only I had a few hundred thousand laying around ten years ago:cry:

For me it was only .10, some of my neighbors paid more and some paid less. I have a feeling it is not an exact science.

Thanks guys!

I am told that there has been some changes made in the past yr as to getting these permits but that was for Cal Parish.... 10 yrs ago I built a house on 1acre that consisted of about 40-50 percent being wetlands but I sent a drawing of my house and driveway which did not impact the area deemed wetlands and they allowed me to clear and build as long as I stayed out of wetlands with a tractor that had tracks and did not dig in that area..... I personally think these people or useless but I guess they have to justify their ripping us off.... I mean getting their pay checks

I had to pay for my small credit before I could get a permit to move ahead with construction.

i would like to think i could build with as little impact as possible. what gets me is its not even remotely close to any real wetlands. The parish works hard and spends good money to keep the large drainage ditchs in good order around the property. LOL

$22,500 per acre for 10% wetlands that is highway robbery...... lots of bamboozling going on in the bayou state!!!

Little off topic, but I looked at that link you put up Duck, and these guys seem a bit confused:

"The tract is located 20 miles northwest of Lake Charles, Louisiana (in Allen and Jefferson Davis Parishes) and the service area for the Calcasieu Mitigation Bank's credits encompasses Calcasieu, Beauregard, Allen, and Jefferson Davis Parishes."

Since when are Allen and Jeff Davis NORTHWEST of Lake Charles? Either I learned my directions wrong, or we live in a mirrored world. lmao.

:*****:I don't have a clue what they were thinking on that. The nearest town is Ragley!

Defining wetlands
 

T-Top, seven months ago, I paid $13,400/acre in an effort to develope land in Lafourche Parish.

The biggest rip-off is that based upon the federal definition of wetlands, just about all tracts south of Alex, could be considered wetlands.

As stated in previous replies, there are many factors that play into what price you will pay. I have seen payments of $5,000 upwards of $31,000 per acre.

After getting a ballpark figure, you may want to consider retaining an enviromental service company. Those groups can save you money, time and the headaches dealing with the corps.

Its definitely something unusual but in a nutshell whenever build on a wetland, you have to mitigate for that 'wetland' that was altered which sounds crazy because for example you can completely take out a wetland down in Cameron Parish and build a subdivision by buying creditsfor a wetland in Allen Parish:confused::rotfl:
What is a wetland? The Corps of Engineers has developed guidelines and a wetland delineation has to take place. The delineators go out and look at the soils, hydrology, and vegetation to determine if its a wetland. We think of wetlands as a marsh or a bottom, but longleaf pine flatwoods are wetlands as well as many prairies.
Mitigation banks - these are the areas you buy credits from, however the Corps releases the credits to the 'banker'. In order to get all the credits, the banker has to restore or keep that area in good condition (no alteration, has to manage for invasive species, etc.), basically put it back or keep it in its historical condition.
It can be extremely lucrative as long as you don't have to put too much work in the restoration process. If you owned a couple hundred acres of pine savannah in Allen Parish and had it in its historic condition, you would be sitting pretty right now.:spineyes: There are many players getting into this game now, so the best time to get in was a few years back.

For a person to be forced to mitigate wetlands, what would he have to be doing?

Lets say my driveway, house, barn, and a riding arena equal 2 acres. This 2 acres i would be putting as dozer on and removing stumps etc... destroying wetlands.

Now lets say the other 8 acres. I clear underbrush and small trees with rubber tire tractors, cut some trees down with chainsaw and grind stumps. I have been told this is not destroying wetlands. no tracked equipment, no blades, no digging.

what do you guys know about this?

No different than selling/trading "Carbon Crediks" just another name for the same scam. One day someone yelled the sky is falling, figured out a way to make money off it, found a person in gooberment to write a law, gave said person a campaign contribution, person who got $$ convinced his croneys they could get some contributions also, they voted to enact the law because their cronies had plenty of land to sell smoke off of and walla.... Mitigation $$$$$$!
Was that close to reality??

Sounds pretty close....

I know it sucks having to pay ridiculous prices for things that your not going to ever be able to use, look at it like this. When paying for the credits your paying for land that is going to be preserved or even restored to provide ecological processes. The wetlands that are placed into the bank have restrictions. This is essentially what other agencies or NGOs do for wetlands.

It isn't like cap and trade because loss of wetlands can actually be measured, and cap and trade would have dealt with carbon offsets and there is still too much variability in the measures of carbon depending on who measured it and thats a whole different slice of bread there:rotfl: If you put a building on top of a wetland, the wetland is still technically there, but the whole function of that wetland has ceased. Some of the 'brush' and vegetation you may be clearing are probably wetland plants that only occur in a wetland and can't grow anywhere else. I will digress, I think we all know the value of a wetland and it can't be justified in just a few paragraphs. Its much much greater than just a few plants lets just say that. There are very few places with as much plant diversity as a wetland. Plant diversity usually means animal diversity as well.

I can see where you are coming from though, and would probably have had the same reaction if I wanted to build and was unaware of the process. Its far from perfect (because the gov't is in charge of it:grinpimp:) but it is at least something to keep some natural areas around.

On the cap and trade thing, there are actually companies that are buying these carbon 'crediks' to show that they are a 'green' company by showing that their carbon emissions are at a net zero by planting trees to offset their carbon emissions. More power to them if thats what they want to do.

well said

i agree with the concept of preserving and restoring wetlands, and people like me paying their dues. For destroying wetlands in the process of building a home.

But i think this statement made earlier in the thread is where i fall..
The biggest rip-off is that based upon the federal definition of wetlands, just about all tracts south of Alex, could be considered wetlands.

when the property has no marsh grass, no water, really nothing that resembles wetlands and you still have to pay, just sounds like more government getting into our pockets.

Wetland mitigation/Carbon Crediks = gooberment scam, no more, no less.
You can destroy an existing wetland area (LAbERGE) if you pay $$$ to someone who has an existing wetland enrolled in the program. How or who is going to develop the millions of acres on the coast owned by Miami Corp, Vermilion Corp, ect. it's never gonna happen but they can sell it in mitigation for someone to build a hotel on a marsh area if the pony up the chedda. How does this promote/protect the wetlands drained for non-beneficial use?
I believe you are missing my point on this. Gooberment intervention into my private property (imement domain) (wetlands mitigation) (carbon crediks) has the effect of driving up the cost of doing business, which is passed along to the populace who pays taxes. I am for sound use of our resources, conservation but not at the expense all the loony laws enacted by the EPA, ect.

This statement is not going to sound very sensical, but a wetland does not have to be wet all the time!:spineyes: Bottomland hardwoods go several years sometimes without going under but they are still a wetland
You look at the soils, the vegetation, and the hydrology of that area to make a determination. The problem is that most of our hydrology has been altered so an area that used to be wet year round is now dry. The soils however are still considered 'hydric' meaning they would hold water.
Did you find out any info about prices? Very curious if you don't mind sharing that info

when i start getting prices i will let you know.

I understand, about the other stuff.... the land has that dark moist soil that looks great for gardens... with decomposed foilage on it... and plenty of really nice live oaks on it... perfect place to build a home...LOL and its typically going to be wetlands even though it hasn't seen water in 20 years that i know of...

The reason you can not do whatever you want on your own property is because it may hav a negative effect on other people. If you try to drain a wetland on your property, you may be flooding your neighbor, or you are affecting the hydrology of a much larger area. It might not seem like a big deal to dam up a little creek in the backyard, but that water has to go somewhere and it just affected that whole watershed. If everyone just went and altered the hydrology on their property, the whole system would be affected dwonstream. Wetlands are extremely important in recharging the water supply particularly with acquifers. I don't agree with all the rules but without some regulatiory agencies like the EPA, someone could just go dump an old gallon of paint in your backyard creek and think its ok, or some big factory can come in and dump all their waste products right into the waterways. We are losing wetlands at an incredible rate. Up north, in the prairie pothole region (the duck factory) there is virgin wet prairie being drained right now in the name of corn production. I understand why they are doing it, but a few years down the road when all that land is producing corn and not ducks, I would bet there is going to be some changes of heart.

You can destroy an existing wetland area (LAbERGE) if you pay $$$ to someone who has an existing wetland enrolled in the program. How or who is going to develop the millions of acres on the coast owned by Miami Corp, Vermilion Corp, ect. it's never gonna happen but they can sell it in mitigation for someone to build a hotel on a marsh area if the pony up the chedda. How does this promote/protect the wetlands drained for non-beneficial use?

Are you saying that if Miami, Vermilion, etc. sell their land into some kind of mitigation bank, that they still own the land and can lease it out for duck hunting, etc., but they receive money because they promise never to develop it and that they will keep it as wetlands?

You can lease out the land of a mitigation bank absolutely as long as the users/lessors do not damage or alter the land. There are certain guidelines that have to be met and as long as those are met, you are free to use it as you wish. There is a mitigation bank that is now part of Maurepas WMA and its open to the public to hunt. The mitigation credits are still owned by the former landowner but the state manages the property just like they would the entire WMA. It was part of the large Maurepas WMA acquisition this last year.
The guidelines for each habitat are different and I am not familiar with marsh banks, but for instance on longleaf pine banks you have to control invasive plants (chinese tallowtree is prominent in many of them), offsite trees (in SW La, slash pines will blow in from the neighboring slash pine plantations and have to be taken out. They are native to SE La), certain hardwoods, and then maintain the understory vegetation. Longleaf piney woods have a very diverse understory and that is one of the main components in this type of bank. There is a rating system for the grasses, wildflowers, etc and you have to keep up the 'score' and maintain the diversity. Prescribed fire is also a requirement in the longleaf system, and it depends on where you are at as to how often you are required to burn.

Damn Skippy! You can pump a marsh off, fill it in,build a kasina, and all you have to do is pay the mitigation. But if the Feds discover the long lost turd worm on your property they can shut a million dolla farming operation down with your own tax dollars.

Louisiana has X amount of wetlands. If wetlands were completely off limits for any manipulation or development, economic growth would be shut down. 'They' realize our wetlands are extremely important but also economic growth and development is extremely important as well to our economy. There has to be a balance and mitigation is the best answer for it at this time:)