Most people i see that are having problems with their dog just dont give the dog enuff patience and try other tools that just mess the dog up. They think a dog gonna learn stuff way to fast and they just get frustrated with them. Traing a dog takes a lot of time and patience and some people just cant handle it IMO.

Thats exactly it. Dogs learn by repettition!

Pinch collar is another great tool if used correctly. You should never jerk or pop the lead with it. Instead, you should apply pressure gradually and steady until the desired result is achieved whether it be to fetch, sit, or come and then let off and praise.

Thanks guys